Not to belabor the janitorial stuff, but just a brief note…
Kelly E Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com> writes:
> Part of the problem is that, in this electronic age, most people
> expect some kind of acknowledgement back from their emailed subscribe
> requests. Let's face it, mail sometimes does evaporate, and if you send
> off a request and hear nothing back for days, you may wonder if the
> message ever got through.

Oh, I have no problem with that…if I've been sitting on my ass, drinking
mead instead of keeping up with the digest, it's fair to prod me a second
time. If I'm several days behind, I expect extra work when I dig out. My
objection was to getting two (or more!) requests within one 24-hour period.

It would be nice to send an automatic ack right away, but the Catch-22 is
that it takes some study to determine what gets an ack. You might be sur-
prised at the…ummm…let's say "electronic lees"…that shows up in the

• -request mailbox, and responding to THAT would only make things much worse.

'Nuff about the mechanics…I'm always open to suggestions, but let's take
'em off line and leave the digest bandwidth for mead stuff.

• —

Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA

…Simpler is better.

jane@swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman) writes:
> Are you sure Bunratty Meade isn't a brand name? Bunratty (brand) Meade (a
> honey-wine beverage), just the thing for that Olde Tyme beverage aura!…

I've seen the label (see diatribe a few MLD's ago) and I've tried it, and
I'm sure it *IS* a brand name. If you look at the label, you see the name
"Bunratty" in low-contrast small letters, the brand-name MEADE in enormous
contrasting type, and the TM symbol in tiny type. MEADE is a brand name,
and it seems hard to argue that it wasn't chosen to *suggest* mead without
actually *being* mead.

> I have no idea of its origins, but I had a wonderful slightly-sparkley
> mead at Durty Nellie's under the walls of Bunratty Castle in 1975. This
> was quite obviously *not* honey-enriched wine,…

I've heard more than one account of this…which is another reason the
stuff imported to the US bothers me so much. I suppose it's marketed for
Americans who visited Bunratty Castle and want more of what they tried
there. (It certainly isn't intended to encourage Americans to plan a visit
to Bunratty Castle to try the Mead[e]!)

Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com> asks:
> …Also, someone here, and at
> a homebrew meeting I went to, said that stuff labelled "white wine flavored
> with …" might acutally be a real mead, just mislabelled to get around the
> jackboots.

Leaving the "jackboots" part aside, assuming that this refers to BATF regs
in the US, the answer is "no". Mead is made by fermenting honey, and you
can put "mead" (no "e"!) on the label as long as you also put "honey wine".
"Wine flavored with honey [etc]" is not honey wine and is not mead, in US
legal terminology. (I.e., if you want to get on the BATF's case, this is
not a valid reason to do so.)

• —

Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA

…Simpler is better.

Myself and some friends have been trying to do some reasonably organized
mead brewing, and it seemed to us that PH is VERY important in clear meads.
Straight meads would take months and months, stop, not ferment to completion
and such. The first attempt to alter this was when we added a can of organic
orange juice (6 oz frozen concentrate) to a 3 gallon batch. This fermented
as well as any beer, and in a about a month cleared out just beautifully. We
used O.J. as we would rather rely on natural sources of acid than from
processed ingredients. Give it a try.
I prefer both my beer and my coffee to be dark and bitter; that way, they
fit in so well with the rest of my life.

Daniel@Buffnet.net / Daniel Gurzynski

With all the discussion lately about sparkalloid, gelatin, etc. I thought I'd
ask about peoples' experiences with
Irish moss, and in particular, pectic enzyme.

I know that Dick Dunn and probably others have talked about not really needing
pectic enzyme outside of
melomels, but I have found that it has really helped my meads clarify quickly
when I add it at the start in the
primary. So far I've used it in a vanilla metheglin, a mint metheglin, and a
blueberry melomel. I have seen a
book ("Country Wines", by Vargas and Gulling, Storey publishing) which
recommends it for even
traditional meads. Am I being misled? mistaken?

I have also used a little Irish moss in just about every mead I've ever made
with no detrimental effects to my
knowledge or tastebuds. All I know is that it's an effective flocculant.
Anyone know otherwise or anything
else interesting about it?

Thanks!

David Prescott lprescot@sover.net

Hello all!
It's good to be reading the mead list again. It seems to have grown since last
I was here. Cool!

First, a story: Has anyone ever tried a watermelon mead? I have now. This
summer, I decided to have a swing at some watermelon mead, and just to be
hard-core, I decided not to use any water…just the melon juice that is.
Well, after blending, straining and otherwise defacing 6 large melons, I ended
up with about 5 gallons of clear deep ruby colored juice. I added seven pounds
of clover honey and pitched a healthy Irish Ale Wyeast starter. Let me tell
you how happy that yeast was…I've never seen a fermentation like that, mead
or beer. The stuff took off. Well, maybe a day into the raging ferment, all
the beautiful red pigments started to clump together and fall out as I had
feared they might. After the ferment had subsided, I racked the now bright
yellow fluid, leaving behind a thin red layer on the bottom. It's still really
cloudy and I'm sure I'll have to fine the stuff. Even then, I wonder if it
will clear. Still, an interesting experiment. Has anyone else tried anything
like this?

That brings me to my next topic, which is the use of ale yeast in mead. I had
heard many people talk of using ale yeasts in their meads, but only recently
tried it with a few batches. Those are still to young to drink, so I can't say
what the results will be, but I am hoping for a lower alchohol mead (maybe
7-8%) and perhaps some nice estery characteristics. Has anyone else used ale
yeast with favorable or not so favorable results? How about meads in the
alchohol range described? I love my 13% meads, but it is quite a commitment to
drink one, and after one you don't want to stop because the stuff is so damn
good.

Another story: This is a concoction a friend and I whipped up over the summer.
We took 4 lbs of dark Tulip Poplar honey and 2 lbs of Orange Blossom to get
some different flavor layers in the honey. We also mashed 3 lbs of Belgiam
Pilsner malt and 2 lbs of unmalted wheat. Some stale hops and coriander
were added in the short boil and then the must was added to a fermentor with
about 6 lbs of peaches. Finally, we pitched a starter of Ale yeast,
bruxelinsis and lambicus yeasts. Any comments? Similar stories? Looks of
horror? Basically, the stuff should be some sort of Peche lambic mead in a
moderate alchohol range.

Another topic: Honeys. Is there a honey faq? If so, I would love one. I
have only recently broken away from the tyranny of "always using clover honey"
I am positive that there must be some very effective honeys and mixtures of
honey for mead. I am especially interested in dark honey at the moment. I
love the unfermented taste of the Tulip Poplar and can't wait to see how it
turns out in the Peche. So, what are your favorite non-clover honey varieties?

Yet another topic: Sulfite. I recently started sulfiting my meads because I
wanted to try not boiling the must. What are the pros and conns of doing this?
Are there adverse affects?

Finally, I know the brewer from the meadery in Greenwich NY used to subscribe
and contribute to this newsgroup. Is he still here? Does anyone have an
address where I could reach him?

Thanks in advance for any replies/postings on these topics. Sorry this got so
long.

Gregg Carrier
stu_gjcarrie@vax1.acs.jmu.edu

According to the FAQ that accompanied the notice of my subscription to this
digest, darker honeys tend to be overpowering when used in mead. I've
recently found a source of toyon blossom honey, a very dark honey similar in
color (and taste) to mollasses. As an experiment, I plan on using about
10-12 pounds of this honey for a 5 gallon batch of mead.

The questions I have are these. Would the final product be more palatable
if I used less honey, say 6 to 8 pounds, to made a much drier mead? Would it
be prudent to mix the darker honey with a lighter honey to keep the total to
10-12 pounds? Or, should I just wing it and give it a try using my original
plan?

I'm leaning toward the third option, but would welcome any feedback. Having
only made two other batches, my experience is limited.

Thanks in advance,
John Knight
jknight@terminus.com

>I was wondering if I could get some specifics on "feeding"
>honey into a fermenting batch of mead. I have read that you can add
>honey later to a fermenting batch because the yeast will be able to
>absorb it but there hasn't been any specifics as to when it should be
>done, what quantities should be added, and general technique.

I always add honey later to my meads, by taking out some of the
mead-in-progress, mixing it into the warming honey, and pouring the whole
soup back in. There was only one time that I had a bad experience doing
this–I added honey not too long after the first fermentation had taken off,
probably because I couldn't get hold of enough right at the beginning.
Well, it went crazy. As I poured it in it basically started to boil and
foamed all over the place, out of the carboy, on the wall, on the floor, on
the dog, etc. The house smelled great but it was VERY sticky for a while.
So I guess that would be a warning not to add any more honey (especially
when the liquid is still warm) while your fermentation is still very lively.
And even later I'd add it slowly and watch for that boiling kind of thing
happening. I've been scared since then, obviously, and probably over careful.
But to answer the question of why/when to add, I taste the mead once it has
slowed way down, and if it's too weak in terms of alcohol and sweetness, I
add more honey. Totally unscientific but I've had excellent meads and
spiced meads (what's the term again?) and besides, having been raised by a
chemist (ablative absolute) I have a strong aversion to pursuing what is at
least partially an art form with too much scientific fortitude.

Maggie Burns
mab21@psu.edu

I'm looking foir a good cyser recidpe.
I'm looking to use my usual 15 pounds of honey and 5 gallons (actually)
6 – 7 of apple cider–but was wondering about other recommended components?

thanks

in MLD428, Sam Bennett writes:

"Light raisins are sulfphited. Getting a ferment started with these things in
the must is a bitch. The one time I used them (dandelion wine) it took a week
and 3 pitchings before there was any activity."

Shouldn't sulfites be easily washed off by hand prior to adding to the must?

Does anyone know if they exist on other fruits… for example, the commercial
blueberries that I just (washed and) used for a melomel? I like to think that
sulfites, like other chemicals can be washed off of fruits and vegetables, but
this does make me wonder how other preservatives can affect fermentation, and
whether or not they can be removed easily. Thoughts?

David Prescott- Lprescot@sover.net

Lee B writes:

>I have found that Polyclar will after a
>few days settle to a fairly dense mass, compacting the yeast and
>itself to a fairly stable cake. Perhaps this is the answer to the
>sparkaloid thing? Give the mead the 'ol one two. Use a fining for
>your fining.

>Might work.

DOES work.

About acid testing kits:

>Now, can anyone tell me what concentration of NaOH to
>prepare, what conc. of color indicator, and how exactly to perform the test?

Usually 1% phenolphtalein (in 70% EtOH) is used as indicator, 0.1 M NaOH
and 15 mL of sample.

Its simple. Take 15 mL of sample, add a few drops of indicator and titrate
to phenolphtalein endpoint.

You can use any molarity (normality) of NaOH or sample volume that you
like. I prefer to use 0.2 M and a sample volume of 15 mL The accuracy of
your result is highly dependent on the accuracy of your NaOH solution and
the ability to measure the NaOH added.

Acidity is expessed as % tartaric and the formula is:

%tartaric(g/100mL)=[(V)(N)(75)(100)]/(1000)(v)
which can be simplified to

%tartaric(g/100mL)=[(V)(N)(7.5)]/(v)

where:
V=volume of NaOH to achieve neutrality
N=Normality of NaOH solution
v=volume of sample (mead)

Have fun.

DanMcC

• Joel Stave writes:

• Light raisins are sulfphited. Getting a ferment started with these things

in

• the must is a bitch. The one time I used them (dandelion wine) it took a

week

• and 3 pitchings before there was any activity.

• That said, there are some recipes (like the dandelion wine) which

specifically

• call for light raisins. Is there some techinique that I don't know about

for

• getting rid of the suphite without changing the taste of the raisins? Or

is it

• just OK to let the must sit for a week before the ferment kicks in?

I agree about the problems with light raisins. The real solution is not to
use them. The flavor of dark (preferably organic) raisins is much better.
The color is not really a problem. I have made plenty of batches of
dandelion wine with dark raisins and it is fine. The color is a little
darker, but that doesn't matter, because the flavor is better and the flavor
is what really counts.
Dale
westd@gsimail.ddn.mil

Steve Mercer asks

> Does anybody know an accurate method of measuring alcohol content
> in sweet meads?

I grabbed this from one of the FAQ files on my "beer page":

Ralph Snel (ralph@astro.lu.se) wrote:
A quite simple way that will give accuracy up to 0.1% is to boil off
all the alcohol and substitute by water. This means boiling down to
less than a third of the original volume in most cases, it's not that
hard to smell if there are alcohols in the vapour.
Fill with water so you have your original volume and take the difference
in gravity, then look up alcohol content in the table:

SG Alcohol SG Alcohol SG Alcohol
diff. vol % diff. vol % diff. vol %
0 0.00 10 7.18 20 16.00
1 0.64 11 7.98 21 17.00
2 1.30 12 8.80 22 18.00
3 1.98 13 9.65 23 19.00
4 2.68 14 10.51 24 20.00
5 3.39 15 11.40 25 21.00
6 4.11 16 12.30 26 22.00
7 4.85 17 13.20
8 5.61 18 14.10
9 6.39 19 15.10
10 7.18 20 16.00

by Leo van der Straten
ISBN 90-245-0969-6

Richard Webb <rbw1271@husky.ca.boeing.com>:
>of the carboy. Talk about synergy! Two cloudy liquids mixed together yeilding
>a clear liquid! In any case, I'm letting the mixture sit for a couple of
>weeks, hoping that the cider will initiate a new fermentation round, but I
>was wondering if anyone had an explanation for this phenomina. My personal
possibly some of the pectin in the apple juice? That would be my
guess…

ray_gaffield@il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield):
> I was wondering if I could get some specifics on "feeding"
>honey into a fermenting batch of mead. I have read that you can add
>honey later to a fermenting batch because the yeast will be able to
>absorb it but there hasn't been any specifics as to when it should be
>done, what quantities should be added, and general technique.
i tend to put about half of the total honey in the mead then split the
addition of the rest into two or three more "feedings"

>fermenting ,albeit slowly. Can honey be added once it's in the
sure…. you'll just have more yeast grow… probably need another
racking or three….
supposedly, feeding the yeast over time helps produce a higher alcohol
content… I've had "smashing" results…. 😉

rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn):
>(Again, I emphasize I'm not trying to disprove or discredit anything. It's
>just that extraordinary results require extraordinary care in checking
>them.)
lets see… we could fractionally distill it and measure out the
resulting brandy…. not that you'd want to do this to drink as we all
know that would be illegal…. in the US anyway….

🙂

i think for a truely accurate reading you should do at least a gallon
or two…. make sure you don't loose any of the water vapor in some
sort of double chilling process which extracts water….. no that
would be bad…
not being a chemist, i'd have no idea how this would be done….
anyone have some experience… umm err ideas?

f'lip

in MLD#428 Lee C. Bussy writes

>I have found that Polyclar will after a
>few days settle to a fairly dense mass, compacting the yeast and
>itself to a fairly stable cake. Perhaps this is the answer to the
>sparkaloid thing? Give the mead the 'ol one two. Use a fining for
>your fining.

and Evan_Still asks

>Can i add some gelatin to help
>congeal the sparkaloid so it won't enter my tube.

Thats what I do, add gelatine and sparkaloid together. I mix them at the
same time and dump the whole mess into my mead, works almost every time.
Sometimes it needs an extra dose of gelatine however.

Alex Flinsch
IMI Systems
aflinsch@njebmail.attmail.com

Re: Raisins,

My dad used to make hard cider by adding chopped raisins to unfiltered
organic apple juice. Presumably yeast from the skin of the raisins
did most of the work. They must have been unsulphered. Has anyone
tried this with mead? I think I will this winter.

Re: High alcohol content,

Tangentially, I remember a message on the Homebrew Digest (from Micah
Millspaw?) a few years ago about making strong meads by adding the
honey in stages. Start with a must of about 1.080, let it ferment
out, then add more honey to bring it back to 1.080 or so, and let it
ferment out again. Any comments on this method?

Re: Rue, a new topic,

I have a little rue plant, and I love the aromatic, bitter flavor of
the leaves. Perhaps this herb would be a good bittering agent—
an alternative to hops in beer. Has anyone tried making a purl or a
metheglin with rue? (Purl is a spiced, malt-based drink—beer before
hops were discovered.) I'm going to try something soon, but I don't
know how much would be good to add, or how/when to add it.

Jake.

I did some research on the determination of various parameters of
fermented beverages a little while back for a Zymurgy article (see the
summer 95 issue for a more complete version of this). Succinctly, the
*most accurate* way to determine alcohol content in any fermented
beverage is by the following set of equations (nomenclature at end):

OE = -668.962 + 1262.45*OG – 776.43*OG**2 + 182.94*OG**3

AE = -668.962 + 1262.45*FG – 776.43*FG**2 + 182.94*FG**3

q = 0.22 + 0.001*OE

RE = ( q*OE + AE ) / ( 1 + q )

A%w = (OE – RE) / (2.0665 – 0.010665*OE)

A%v = A%w (FG / 0.794)

The first two equations are very accurate fits (by me) to empirical data
(from Plato), the next three equations are empirical equations developed
by Balling, and the last equation is an analytical equation. If that is
too much trouble, then a good estimate (better than many in the common
homebrew books) based on these equations is:

76.08 (OG – FG)

A%w = ————–

1.775 – OG

A%v = A%w (FG / 0.794)

This estimate is based on the equation "E = 1000 (SG – 1) / 4", which is
only really valid for low SG. For high OGs (like the meads in question),
you really need to use the full-blown equations at the beginning of this
post.

Again, I direct you to the Zymurgy article for a full explanation.

• -Mike

Nomenclature:

A%w – Alcohol percent by weight.
A%v – Alcohol percent by volume.
AE – Apparent extract (degrees Plato), the apparent weight percent of
dissolved solids in the beer, before correcting for the lower
density of the alcohol.
E – Extract (degrees Plato), the weight percent of dissolved materials
in the wort.
FG – Final specific gravity.
OE – Original extract (degrees Plato).
OG – Original specific gravity.
RE – Real extract (degrees Plato), the real weight percent of dissolved
solids in the beer, after correcting for the lower density of the
alcohol.
SG – Specific gravity (density relative to water). Specific gravity in
points is equal to 1000*(SG – 1).

A few people have asked that I post the recipe I used for the basil
metheglin that I mentioned in a previous post, so here it is.

NOTE: I made this metheglin for cooking, and so wanted a strong basil
flavor. It can be sipped, but only if you *really* like basil. Also,
when I say "gallon" I mean U.S. gallon.

Basil Metheglin (1 gallon batch)

~2.5 lbs clover honey
6 cups freshly picked sweet basil leaves (loosely packed)
water to 4 liters
1 tsp acid blend
1 tsp yeast nutrient
pasteur champagne yeast (it was all I could find at the time)

8/18/94

Heated water and honey. Skimmed and simmered about 5 minutes.
When cool, added acid blend and nutrient and pitched yeast.
SG 1.080

8/19/94

picked and crushed basil leaves, put into a straining bag and
added to the must. Ferment was going pretty well by this time.

8/24/94

Racked to a 4 liter jug – SG 1.042

9/20/94

racked to 1 gallon jug (4 liters to 1 gallon almost always works
without having to top up or having any left over) SG 1.000
It cleared *very* quickly after this.

12/11/94

bottled in half-bottles. SG 0.996.

9/5/95 (last night)
opened a bottle. pale green, crystal clear, *very* strong basil
flavor and aroma. Definately drinkable if you like basil – might
be good with pesto.

• —

Joel Stave
stave@ctron.com

> A year later, it is still
>quite cloudy. I am convinced that the haze is not yeast, and the mead
>tastes good, but the haze bothers me. I am determined to empty some
>bottles back into a carboy and fine. The question is, what fining agent
>should I use?? What would be appropriate for non-yeast haze?

I wouldn't try it if I were you. The process of getting the mead from the
bottle to the carboy and back again will mnost likely introduce too much
oxygen and make the mead stale. Your best bet is just to make another batch
and if it does happen again my choice would be poly clear.

Matt Maples
mattm@teleport.com