Mead Lover's Digest #0553 Wed 9 April 1997


Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor



re: Salmonella in Honey????? (Dick Dunn)
Re: Braggot Recipes. (Dave Polaschek)
basil flower vinegar (Chuck Wettergreen)
Suggestions… (Thomas Birch)
Re: Bananas and Babies (Bill Shirley)
Bannana (
Salmonella spp. (Douglas Johnston)
unsubscribe me (Mark Shubelka)
Hop Honey, (Nathan Moore)
What next? (David Johnson)


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Subject: re: Salmonella in Honey?????
From: (Dick Dunn)
Date: 7 Apr 97 20:03:08 MDT (Mon)

Matt Maples ( wrote:

> My wife and I are expecting so of course we have been busy reading any
> baby stuff we can get our hands on. While reading a parenting magazine
> I came across an interesting article. It was about moving your baby to
> solid foods and it listed the what foods you should give them and at
> what age. The interesting part was it said you should not give a baby
> under two years old raw honey because it could contain salmonella.
> This sounded absolutely absurd to me and I wondered if anyone out
> there had some hard facts on the topic.

This sounds like somebody dropped parity. It *IS* conventional wisdom that
you should not give infants honey, but the standard reason is that honey
harbors botulism bacteria, not salmonella. As I recall, there's even a
publication from the National Honey Board that mentions the no-honey-for-
infants warning.

Dick Dunn rcd at Boulder County, Colorado USA

…Simpler is better.

Subject: Re: Braggot Recipes.
From: Dave Polaschek <>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 21:46:00 -0500

> I was just wondering if any of you out there would mind sharing
>any of your braggot recipes. I was thinking about using a dark amber malt.

<> and

  • -DaveP

Dave Polaschek – or

Subject: basil flower vinegar     
From: Chuck Wettergreen <chuckmw@Mcs.Net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 08:10:46 -0500 (CDT)


In MLD #552, (Daniel S. McConnell) said:

MM> Chuck, why don't you make vinegar with the basil mead? It's really eas

Of course this has always been an option, but first I have to try a
little blending with pyments, and also give you the opportunity
to basil-dissolve your taste buds on the real thing at the Mazer Cup.

Also, (Jeff Duckworth) asked if there is such
a thing as "mead brandy". Don't know about mead brandy, but one
and a half gallons of my 30-day sour cherry melomel became Cherry-jack
Melomel with the use of some judicious freezing. I'm still not
quite sure which category of the Mazer Cup I'm going to enter that
?mead? in…..

* RM 1.3 00946 *

Subject: Suggestions...
From: Thomas Birch <>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:28:23 -0400 (EDT)

Is there such a thing as "Mead Brandy", of course, there is "such a
thing", but, has anyone ever seen/had such a drink? Not that I would
ever try to make any (Hello Mr. ATF Man!).

Jeff Duckworth


I have never seen/heard of such a brandy, but based on my experience
over-seas, it does not take much imagination to create it. The process I
learned would be properly called "freeze distillation". Place one gallon of
finished wine in a bowl in the freezer. It will begin to freeze in about
two and a half hours. The ice forms in interesting little flakes. Stir
every 10 to 15 minutes there-after to prevent it from freezing solid. Every
half hour or so strain out the ice flakes. In order to get to the 42%
listed on the bottle of Remy-Martin in my china cabinet the volume of
standard wine (12%) would have to be reduced by about 75%. I suggest you
forgo the tedium, pay the ATF taxman, and enjoy some Remy-Martin…

Banana Banana my kingdom for some information. I got the idea to make a
banana mead so I started looking for recipes and found only one.

Dan K.:

I have made several batches of banana wine over the years, but no banana
mead (melomel). The discussion has inspired me to run an experiment with
some very ripe bananas and orange blossom honey. General notes: I do not
recommend using the skins (yes, there really is a psycho-active chemical
there…), nor do I boil. I penny cut (well, I try anyway!) and sulphite
for 24 hours before pitching the yeast (EC-1118). Think of bananas as pure
pectin with a little banana oil thrown in! Forget the bag, it will only
frustrate you. I use 1 teaspoon pectinase per gallon to start, then add 2
teaspoon more on the second racking. It should go brilliant yellow after
three or four months.


Subject: Re: Bananas and Babies
From: Bill Shirley <>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 12:26:57 -0400

I have met someone who made a banana mead in which the bananas were sliced
with the peels on and boiled. He said it was good. He did another batch at
a BURP (D.C. area homebrew club) meeting, as a mead making demonstration.
Will be available for tasting a year afterward.

Honey and Babies don't mix:
I have heard that young 'uns should not have honey (particularly if
untreated). But it mentioned nothing about salmonella, only said there are
many possible allergens in it that are often irritants to young bodies. It
mentione also that mature persons can be effected by it as well.

  • bill

Subject: Bannana
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:41:16 +0000

> Subject: Banana Melomel?
> From:
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:44:30 -0400 (EDT)
> Banana Banana my kingdom for some information. I got the idea to make a
> banana mead so I started looking for recipes and found only one. I found it
> in the cats meow, and the author has not even tried it. I will quote it here,
> could some of you please comment on the procedure. I am a little weary of
> using the skins and boiling them sounds like trouble to me, there is also no
> mention of pectic enzyme? Please help ease my curiosity I have this notion in
> my head of a mead that taste's like banana nut bread. (heavy sigh) Maybe
> just make a banana melomel and put a few drops of amarreto or frangelica in
> the glass at serving time.
> (Quoted form the cats meow)
> Banana Melomel
> Classification: mead, melomel, banana mead
> Source: Matt Maples (, MLD #396, 4/10/95
> Although I have never tried it I do have a recipe for bannana melomel. I have
> been thinking of trying it for some time but never got around to it. If you
> do try this recipe all I ask is for you to let me know how it turns out.
> Ingredients: (1 gallon)
> 3 Lb bananas
> 1.5 cup grape concentrate
> 7 pt water
> 2.25 lb honey
> 3 tsp acid blend
> .25 tsp tannin
> 1 tsp nutrient
> wine yeast
> Procedure:
> Slice washed bananas (skins and all) and put into a nylon bag and tie. In 1.5
> Qt water bring to a boil and simmer for 30min. Remove bag and pour hot
> liquour over honey and grape conc. Add the rest of the ingriedients and
> enough water to make 1
> gallon. Pitch when at 70 deg. Keep me updated on its progress.
> Specifics:
> OG: 1095
> FG: 1000
> (end quote)
> Please help. TIA You guys seem to have so much knowledge I am only loking
> to share a small portion of it. If nobody will admit to first hand knowledge
> of fermenting with banana's then at least some informed opinions would
> greatly apricated. I promise that I am going to try making a banana melomel
> this summer and will report my experience. (good or bad) Again thanks in
> advance for the help.

That was my post from way back. I didn't use that recipe but I did
try one very simular that was spiced. The color (yes it did turn out
brite yellow) aroma and banana flavor was great but the spices were
overdone. Please be patient and I will post the spiced recipe. If I
had it to do over again though I would do the non spiced recipe and
use that as a strating point to come up with my own banana/spice
recipe. Also if you see a recipe that calls for grape concentrate or
rasins, do yourself a favor and get wine quality concentrates (not
welches). I have had great success with resling, semillon, and
merlot. Yes they are kind of expensive but they add greater dimension
and have a better flavor than rasins.

Matt Maples

"A Honest Brew Makes Its Own Friends"

Subject: Salmonella spp.
From: Douglas Johnston <>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:24:06 -0700

Matt Maples asked about Salmonella in honey. Since Salmonella is
commonly found in animal feces (including humans)it is highly unlikely
that it would exist at any appreciable concentration in honey unless the
honey was processed by an infected individual. It is, however, important
not to feed raw honey to infants because of the risk of Clostridium
botulinum infection, the organism responsible for production of botulism
toxin. Adults are able to fend off the bacterial spores but infants
aren't. Once infected the spores germinate and begin producing toxin. Be
aware that boiling doesn't destroy the spores…that's why it's important
to use steam under pressure (as in home canning).

Congratulations and happy brewing!

Douglas Johnston

Subject: unsubscribe me
From: Mark Shubelka <>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:48:29 -0400 (EDT)

please unsubscribe


Thank You

Subject: Hop Honey, 
From: Nathan Moore <moorent@bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:28:08 -0600 (MDT)

It looks like I will be spending the summer in Oregon. Like any

good brewer I've already started considering all the possible ingredients
I might be able to buy there that I cant get (or are more expensive) in
Colorado. I'm already planning on bringing home enough berries for a
batch of mead I'm going to start before I leave. Then I started thinking
about honey. Being a beer brewer the first thing I think about when I
think about Oregon is hops. So I put 2 and 2 together and came up with
Hop Honey. So now the question. Does exist and has anyone tried it or
know were to get some? What other real unusual honeys have people tried?
I've heard of a rain forest honey from banana, coconut and other tropical
flowers but it is really expensive and sold by the ounce as health food.
If I ever make it to the rain forests of S. America you can bet I'll find

Nathan Moore
Denver, CO

Subject: What next?
From: David Johnson <"">
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 12:16:33 -0700

I have only been getting the MLD a short time and haven't gotten the
hang of searching the archives very well. I would expect that this kind of
question has been discussed before. Other than lurking and hoping someone
else asks what may seem a dumb question (the gutless approach), I can't see
any way around asking.

I have am among the people who would like to get a mead that

preserves the honey character and some sweetness (I was not pleased with
results from champagne yeast). I also wanted to try some of the belgian yeast
character in a mead. Carbonation, although optional, would also be nice.

I started a mead a week or so ago using 15 lbs. clover honey, 3 tsp

yeast nutrient, and ~38 ounces gooseberries and jostaberries. I aerated it as
well as I could using filtered air delivered by an aquarium pump at the time
of pitching and again 6 hours later. I pitched a mixed starter of a kolsch
yeast (Brew-Tek cl-450) and a Belgian Ale yeast (Brew-Tek cl-320) in a 500cc
starter. It has taken off well. Although this is some months off, I am
thinking about the best way to bottle the final product I contacted my yeast
supplier and they suggested that I can expect to get a FG about 1.025. I
figure that would be pretty sweet(not necesssarily all bad).

As I see it, my options include:
1) Bottle as a still mead to preserve the residual sweetness and my

yeast character. I figure that priming and trying to bottle with the same
yeast wouldn't do much. After all there would be plenty of sugar around and
if the yeast could ferment more it would have already. Is there a way to
bottle and naturally carbonate a sweet mead without getting glass grenades?

2)Buy the equipment and force carbonate. What kind of equipment is


3) Finish with a wine yeast (choice?) and bottle still or carbonated.

Any other Ideas?
Thanks for your attention.

End of Mead Lover's Digest #553