Mead Lover's Digest #0887 Tue 4 December 2001
Mead Lover's Digest #0887 Tue 4 December 2001
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
old honey, trademarks (Cam Lay)
Re: No Fermentation ("Kemp, Alson")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 30 November 2001 (TAimless1@aol.com)
Commercially (Irish) made mead? (BldHghlndr@aol.com)
Re: Pumkin fermenters ("Ken Taborek")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 30 November 2001 (Ups474@aol.com)
(HELP) a Question ("Keith Taylor")
A message on behalf of Redstone Meadery ("Joel Baker")
RE: Pumpkin Mead? (Shane Hultquist)
U.S. Meadery Directory (Dan McFeeley)
mead in nova scotia ("Charlie Coolen")
re: chocolate mint (aerotech)
Re: Pumpkin mead (NLSteve@aol.com)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 29 Nov 2001 ("Taryn East")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #884, 21 November 2001 (Gardengate32@aol.com)
Re: Pumpkin Mead (MLCrary@aol.com)
Maui Honey? (Nathan Kanous)
"Meadery" (Spencer W Thomas)
trademarks (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: old honey, trademarks
From: Cam Lay <clay@CLEMSON.EDU>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:38:41 -0500
Old honey is fine. I have some very dark mead aging away that I made last
year from tulip-poplar honey left over from when I was an undergraduate,
life was less complicated, and I had time to keep bees.
With respect to trademarks (not a lawyer, not a doctor, but played the
latter as a child…), as I understand it the difference is very finely
divided. "Steam Beer" can be trademarked, "Porter," "Stout," or "India
Pale Ale" cannot. Before we all get our collective shorts in a wad,
however, let's consider that Mr. Whatsisname, the lawyer, probably figured
that trademarking the name was a normal part of the process of setting up a
business. If I recall correctly, there was a similar row up in the
People's Republic of New York over a wine-making outfit up there owned by a
man named Taylor that had to change the name of his product to "Bully Hill"
under pressure from the Taylor Winery in California, who started using that
name in that industry first. Trademarking "meadery" probably won't survive
a court challenge. But I doubt anyone is going to be willing to commit the
resources to fight it from either side – the market is not so big that the
competitive advantage of being able to call your production facility a
"meadery" is worth the money to fight over, in other words.
Perhaps we have a mead-making lawyer who can lay this to rest?
These are probably not Clemson University's official opinions.
The notion that technology can substitute for competence is upon
us in all sorts of endeavors. — Jeff Cooper
Regulation through education. Visit the DPR at http://dpr.clemson.edu/
Listen to "Got Bugs?" on SC Educational Radio Tuesdays from 12:30
until we're done at http://yourday.clemson.edu
Subject: Re: No Fermentation
From: "Kemp, Alson" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:52:01 -0800
Can you give us more information on your recipe? Exactly
which nutrients did you use?
Things or something:
1) You're an experienced homebrewer, so you probably
didn't just use tap water (with chlorine).
2) "Mead" Yeasts have been known to be very tempermental.
3) You pitched the Lalvin EC-1118, but the Wyeast yeasts
may have eaten all of the oxygen in the solution leaving nothing
for the Lalvin yeast to work on/reproduce from.
1) get 4 oz apple juice (w/out preservatives!)
2) add a pinch of yeast nutrient (not "energizer"/DAP) to
3) pitch 1 pkg EC-1118 into juice
4) should be fermenting within a few hours
1) Re-aerate the must
2) Dump the fermenting apple juice into re-aerated must
Keep us informed!
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 30 November 2001
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:22:25 EST
re: pumpkin mead…. ferment the mead in a carboy or plastic fermentor. I
think a pumpkin may grow mold on you … If you want some pumpkin flavor in
the mead clean it well cut it up and put it in the fermentor with the mead .
but I don't think you should ferment inside it.
Subject: Commercially (Irish) made mead?
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:32:52 EST
I'm new to the liste, & am learning the ropes of posting to this
liste… anyhow, I have a question. Does anybody know if there is any
commercially made mead from Ireland, & is it avaliable in the U.S.?
I thought that I saw some advertised in an Irish magazine once a few years
ago, but for the life of me I cannot locate the magazine now, nor recall the
Subject: Re: Pumkin fermenters
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@Verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:43:33 -0500
> Subject: Pumpkin Mead?
> From: Tim Jones <email@example.com>
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:23:16 -0500
> Hey All:
> I'm new to this list and have never attempted to ferment Mead before, but
> am interested in learning more. I have become keen on the idea of
> attempting to brew Pumpkin Mead, which is to say fermenting a batch of Mead
> inside of a pumpkin.
After reading the process on both of the web pages you provided, my only
thought was "Where does all the CO2 go?", since the instructins included
sealing the top of the pumkin back on with paraffin wax…
Sounds like something that's liable to lead to a muffled, pumpkin-like,
wet, and sticky explosion in your closet some dark and dreary night. If
I were to give this recipe a go, I'd cut a hole for an airlock in the
top of the pumpkin, and let it vent.
Do keep us updated on the process, I love the idea, as off the wall as
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 30 November 2001
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 04:35:19 EST
I'm not too up-to-date on the concept of copyrighting the term "meadery" –
but the "generic" (non-trademarked) name for a steam beer is "California
Subject: (HELP) a Question
From: "Keith Taylor" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 22:55:04 -0600
I am new to the list. Like to say hi and I have a Question. I just got done
raeking a sweet mead and smells like " cough syrup .it my fist batch:). Does
anyone think this mead will imppove with age??
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons….for you
are crunchy and taste good with ketchup and mayonaisse.."
Subject: A message on behalf of Redstone Meadery
From: "Joel Baker" <email@example.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:30:08 -0700
Since I was up in Boulder for other reasons, this week, I dropped by the
Redstone Meadery for their tour & tasting. I must say that it was truly a
blast, and I am most definitely on their list for the Reserve. After some
amount of chatting, the topic of the trademark came up, and they noted that
they would appreciate someone mentioning the following to the lists:
Their official position regarding the trademark is to not comment, except
to say that they have retained legal counsel and will be exploring their
options in the matter. However, they *do not* request, condone, or sponsor
any form of boycott over the matter.
As should hopefully be obvious, I am not any sort of spokesperson for them,
nor do I have any connection to them other than as a customer and fellow
mead-maker. However, the above position is as close a quote as I can manage
from memory, and the source *is* official. Anyone who has questions about
it should contact them directly; the phone number is listed on their web
[ This message sent to both lists, as an announcement ]
Joel Baker System Administrator – lightbearer.com
Subject: RE: Pumpkin Mead?
From: Shane Hultquist <Shane.Hultquist@pwgsc.gc.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:19 -0500
Subject: Pumpkin Mead?
From: Tim Jones <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:23:16 -0500
I'm new to this list and have never attempted to ferment Mead before, but
am interested in learning more. I have become keen on the idea of
attempting to brew Pumpkin Mead, which is to say fermenting a batch of Mead
inside of a pumpkin.
Ah yes, I have this recipe also. I never tried it due to the logistics of
it. You have to seal the pumpkin with wax…ok, all is fine, but WHERE IS
THE CO2 SUPPOSED TO GO? Think bottle bomb with a whole new twist!
But I did a pumpkin mead using the meat of a pumpkin and some good pumpkin
pie spices….mmmmmmmm tasty.
Subject: U.S. Meadery Directory
From: Dan McFeeley <email@example.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:46:01 -0800
>From time to time there have been queries on MLD about commercially
available meads — below is a listing of U.S. meaderies for folk
who want to look into this. If anyone knows of meaderies that are
not on the list, let me know and I'll add them on.
Dick Dunn maintains a directory listing at www.talisman.com, also
Vickie Rowe at www.gotmead.com and Julia Herz at www.honeywine.com.
Anderson's Orchard & Winery Berrywine Plantation
430 E. US Hwy Lucille Aellen
Valpariso, IN 46383 Linganore Winecellars
(219) 464-4936 13601 Glissens Mill Rd
www.andersonsvineyard.com Mt. Airy, MD 21771-8595
firstname.lastname@example.org (310) 831-5889
White Winter Winery Spurgeon Vineyards & Winery
402 South George St Rt 1
PO Box 636 Box 201 Highland, WI 53543
Iron River, WI 54847 (608) 929-7692
Toll Free: 800-697-2006 www.spurgeonvineyards
(715) 372-5656 email@example.com
Sky River Brewing Earle Estates Meadery
32533 Cascade View Drive John & Esther Earle
P.O. Box 869 3586 Rt. 14
Sultan, WA 98294 Himrod, New York, 14842
(360)793-6761 e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
http://skyriverbrewing.com Web-address: www.meadery.com
Fred's Mead Company HoneyRun Honey Co
Fred Buhl John & Amy Hasle
6024 N.W. 54th Terrace Box 3172
Gainesville, FL 32653-3344 Chico, CA, 95928
Fred's Mead Company World Corporate www.des-chico.com/~honeyrun
Headquarters: email: email@example.com
Lakewood Vineyards Life Force Honey & Winery
Christopher Stamp 1193 Saddle Ridge Rd
4024 SR 14 Moscow, ID 83843
Watkins Glen, NY 14891 208-882-9158
Little Hungary Farm Winery Pirtle's Weston Vineyards
Frank Androczi Elbert & Trisha Pirtle
Rt 6, POB 323 502 Spring St, PO Box 247
Buckhannon, WV 26201 Weston, MO 64098
Oliver Winery Rocky Mountain Meadery
Bill & Kathleen Oliver Fred & Connie Strothman
8024 Hwy 37 3701 G Rd Blo
Palisade, CO 81526
Volcano Winery WineHaven Winery and Vineyard
PO Box 843 9757 292nd Street
Volcano, HI 96785 Chisago City, MN 55013
808-967-7479 Phone/Fax (651) 257-1017
marketing: .Avvolcanowinery@aol http://www.winehaven.com/
general information: firstname.lastname@example.org
Cuthills Vineyards Bartlett Maine Estate Winery
Ed Swanson RR1, Box 598
RR2, Box 210 Gouldsboro,ME 04607
Pierce, NE 68767 (207) 546-2408
Cask & Hive Winery La Buena Vida Vineyards
PO Box 275 416 E College Street
155 Norris Hill Rd. Grapevine, TX
Monmouth, ME 04259 (817) 481-9463
(207) 933-WINE http://labuenavidavineyards.com
Ambrosia by Kristy Meadery Heidrun Meadery
4921 85th Ave West 55 Ericson Court, Suite 4
University Place, WA 98467 Arcata, CA 95521
(253) 307-5156 (707) 825-8748
http://www.wa.net/~ambrosia/ fax (707) 825-8739
Stoney Mesa Winery Jilbert Winery
P.O. Box 966 1496 Columbia Rd.
1619 2125 Drive Valley City, Ohio
Cedaredge, CO 81413 44280
(970) 856-7572 www.ohiohoneywine.homestead.com
Minnesota Wild Winery Mountain Meadows Mead
69 Airport Blvd. Ron Lunder & Peggy Fulder – Meadmakers
McGregor, MN 55760 12 Third Street
(218) 768-4917 Westwood, California 96137-1199
Chateau Lorane SABA TEJ (Organic Honey Wine) Co.
27415 Siuslaw River Road / PO Box 47 15 Park Avenue
Lorane, OR 97451 Rutherford, New Jersey 07070
(541) 942-8028 Tel. 1-888-772-2283 or 201 438 9994
http://www.chateaulorane.com/ Fax 201 438 9994
4700 Pearl Street, unit 2A
Boulder, Colorado 80301
Subject: mead in nova scotia
From: "Charlie Coolen" <email@example.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:18:06
Greetings Mead Lovers
I signed up for this list a few weeks ago, but I don't really qualify as a
mead lover, since I've never actually had any. What I am is a book lover,
especially books from the middle ages.
So is my brother, and he has expressed interest several times in trying some
mead. I've asked the guy at the liquor store, and he says he's never even
heard of "mead" or "honeywine".
Can you give me any suggestions where someone in Halifax, Nova Scotia,
Canada could get a bottled of this stuff? I've searched around on the
internet and only found one or two sites…
Anyway, my brother's birthday is Dec 31, and I'd love to share a glass or
two with him.
(please reply to firstname.lastname@example.org)
Subject: re: chocolate mint
From: aerotech <email@example.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:50:41 +1300
Peter – thanks for the latin name for chocolate mint' I have been after it
for a while.
If you go back a couple of digests, I think there was an item on a mead
recipe using it.
hopefully I can get some here down in New Zealand.
If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before.
Subject: Re: Pumpkin mead
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:59:27 EST
Tim Jones asks about brewing mead inside of a pumpkin.
Check out Pamela Spence's "Mad About Mead," which contains a recipe using a
pumpkin as a secondary fermentation vessel. It's a bit of a "fast and loose"
technique that doesn't worry too much about sanitation. If you try it, let
us know how it goes.
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #886, 29 Nov 2001
From: "Taryn East" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:51:54 +0000
>So, what course of action to take? Boycott the product? Show up at
>their doorstep with torches and pitchforks? Write nasty letters to
>the Governor of Colorado that will remain unread? Will our voices be
LOL, I'm for the pitchforks 😉
Though it might be a bit difficult to get there from here (Australia)
and I couldn't even get the product to be able to boycott it…
I guess it depends on how much clout this community has in the 'wider
Perhaps we should write letters to all the other meaderies?
If there is outright condemnation from the majority of other
mead-producers… I dunno… I don't know how your legal system works,
really, and perhaps it's wishful thinking, but if something's to be done, it
should be done soon.
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our
minds…" – Bob Marley
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #884, 21 November 2001
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:34:46 EST
In a message dated 11/22/2001 0:40:29 AM EST, email@example.com
Subject: Any ideas?
From: "Roel Toussaint" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:46:23 +0100
Hello Fellow Meadmakers!
I'm slowly getting ready to start a couple of new mead batches. And am very
much open for any new ideas or recipes to try! So my question is if anybody
feels like sharing some of these great ideas with me??? Would love that very
One idea I already was was a very spicey mead made with pepers (or strong
spiced paprika's), does anybody have some experience with that? If so please
tell me about it!!!
Thanks in advance and enjoy your mead, I know I will!
one of the more interresting i've brewed was with blueberries and juniper
berries. i've used habinero peppers i've grown (i like the red or the brown
because the yellows and oranges are not as complex tasting) dry and sparingly
after the ferm has settled. i do them one or two at a time in 5 gallons, add
and wait, add and wait, otherwise it takes a coon's age to mellow. b
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Mead
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:18:27 EST
Pumpkin mead brewed inside a pumpkin? Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure
I'd try it. My brew partner and I have made a couple of pumpkin meads from
large pumpkins which I grew. (Please note that the big pumpkins sold at the
supermarket and many farms for jack-o-lanterns are not suitable for either
pie or mead. They are not raised for eating(by people). My grandmother, who
made the world's best pumpkin pie 🙂 called them 'cow pumpkins' so I assume
they were intended to be consumed by livestock. We used a pukmpkin I grew
from the seeds of an 'heirloom' pumpkin called Rouge which I purchased at a
local farmer's market. I believe that heirloom means non-hybrid, and
certainly the pumpkins I have grown from that original resembled it- a deep
red orange, big squatty fruit. We cooked the pumpkin first, as one would for
pie (directions in the Joy of Cooking) then put it through a food mill- the
hand type such as Foley. We then froze the results until time to brew, and
treated it essentially as a melomel, though of course we added pumpkin pie
spices-cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg & cloves. Note that a litle clove goes a long
way, the first one we made had too much. Thanks to advice from Diane Dunn, we
used whole spices instead of ground in our second batch. I believe we put
them in a bag of cheesecloth so they were left behind in the racking. The
result was different than the first batch, but both were good, and unusual.
We usually do a somewhat dry mead, about 2# honey per gallon. Actual receipes
are on our website, unicornunchained.com/mead. Hope this is some help. Marcia
Subject: Maui Honey?
From: Nathan Kanous <email@example.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:10:45 -0600
I'm lucky enough to be preparing myself for a trip to Maui in
February. That being the case, any thoughts or recommendations on
ingredients I might want to bring back with me? Are there any particular
varieties of honey that some have tried? I'm sure there are many different
kinds (christmas berry, macadamia nut, whatever else) but would like to
hear thoughts from others. Thanks.
nathan in madison, wi
From: Spencer W Thomas <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:40:46 -0500
Not to dampen y'alls righteous indignation. But… "meadery" does not
show up in either the American Heritage Dictionary nor the Oxford
English Dictionary. So the word may be in common usage in THIS
community, but it's really not clear that it is a "common english
Please don't think I'm supporting these ****s. But it's not clear-cut.
From: email@example.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:36:39 -0700 (MST)
Jim Johnston <firstname.lastname@example.org> commented:
> In the brewing industry, Anchor Brewing trademarked the "Steam Beer"
> style name, damaging the ability of any other breweries to produce
> this once prevalent style (and showing the arrogance of Fritz Maytag
> in the process). Yet, this trademark has stood up to court
> challenges in the past, showing that our illustrious legal system
> simply acts without regard for history, especially linguistic and
> cultural history…
Regardless of how you feel about Anchor's trademark on "Steam" beer, that
is a rather different situation from Rocky Mountain Meadery attempting to
trademark "Meadery". Although "steam beer" had been common a century ago,
the style had long died out by the time Maytag took over Anchor, _except_
for Anchor itself: the Anchor brewery was the only brewery in the country
producing either a steam beer -or- a beer called "steam". So the name had
come to be identified _only_ with their product, and they asserted the
right to that name. Again as I say, this part isn't tangled in with how
you feel about what they did: They asserted the trade mark at a time when
there was no conflict. Nobody else used the name, nor showed any interest
in it. (You can argue whether they should have been allowed to resurrect a
style and claim the name, but that's wide of my point here.)
In fact, the eventual conflict is a sort of back-handed compliment to
Anchor: They were in effect the first microbrewery of the renaissance of
American beer in the 70's and 80's. They were well-respected in the home-
brewing community. And although Anchor didn't give the details of their
recipe, they were forthcoming about how the beer was made, including the
types of malt and hops and the processes. So home brewers developed enough
recipes for beers in the Steam style (out of their appreciation for
Anchor's product) that it became a category in competition…and it was at
that point that Anchor started saying, "Hey, that's our product name", and
requesting/insisting (depending on who's telling the story) that people use
a more general term for beer in the style of their trademark "Steam".
Meandering back to the point: The contrast is that Rocky Mountain Meadery
asserted a _state_ trademark on the name "Meadery" at a time when there
were already meaderies operating in the US and using "meadery" in their
names. They weren't creating a new word, nor were they picking up a word
that had fallen into disuse. The word had become a common noun, and al-
though it was not in general use (i.e., in the lay population) it had been
established in the mead "industry"…for at least 8 years (according to
the best Dan McFeeley found) prior to RMM's registration of a trademark.
It's a bit shabbier than that, if you look at the Colorado context of the
trademark registration: An article that Dan found from 87 was written by
Charlie Papazian of the Colorado-based American Homebrewer's Association,
and it appeared in a publication of the American Mead Association, which
was also based in Colorado by the time RMM started up. There was even a
Colorado business, selling mead equipment/supplies and in the process of
establishing a meadery, called "Green Mountain Meadery", operating at the
time the "Meadery" state trademark was registered. In other words, there
was substantial reason even back then (1995) not to have granted the
trademark, because it conflicted with established use…not in the world at
large, but in the industry to which the term applied.
Dick Dunn email@example.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
…Simpler is better.
End of Mead Lover's Digest #887