Temp Question

[mcrow24]

Hello,

I'm formulating my second batch of mead and ran into a possible problem.

The best place I have to store mead while it does it's thing is in the basement. Well, I live in MN so the ground freezes all the way down the foundation in the house. Warm spots in the basement might be 60-62 most of the winter.

Will this be a problem? The way I understand is some yeast work OK colder or hotter.

I was thinking of using Lalvin EC-1118 which indicates it's good at lower temps. Will fermentation take longer or how should I adjust my methods to account for the temp?

 

[Squatchy]

First off why that strain? go download "Scott's Laboratory handbook" and you will find all the info about each yeast strain including temps for each strain. A colder temp on that strain works well because it does slow it down so it doesn't blow out all the aromantics out the airlock

 

[mcrow24]

I was thinking of that instead of bread yeast because the temp was lower than I thought bread yeast could handle and it seemed tolerant to most temps.

Also, how long is yeast energizer good for?

I have some that's probably 5 years old but been stored in a cool dry place out of the light.

 

[4give]

Hi. I'd refer to the handbook Squatchy mentioned (free download). I'd get all new adjuncts. I'd say the minimum items are: Go-Ferm for rehydration; Fermaid-O (or similar) for nutrients; and K-Meta and K-Sorb for stabilizing. SIYs are a great new addition too, but not mandatory. All of these are relatively inexpensive in small quantities over at morewinemaking.com. If you're going to get that stuff, then other yeast considerations that the handbook will show you are:
DV10 - Many on this forum have used this successfully
K1V1116 - ditto to DV10

 

[mcrow24]

What temp does baking yeast work at? I was thinking it's warmer than most wine yeast.

 

[Squatchy]

Most red wines ferment at a pretty high temp. Your bread yeast is good at room temp

 

[mcrow24]

Most red wines ferment at a pretty high temp. Your bread yeast is good at room temp

Well, like I said where I'd be storing the mead would be 60-65, is that too cold for bread yeast?

I've also consiered D47 as well just for temp purposes.

 

[darigoni]

From what I’ve read, the temp range of bread yeast is 55F - 85F.

 

[mcrow24]

From what I’ve read, the temp range of bread yeast is 55F - 85F.

OK sounds like 60-65 should be OK but probably slower?

 

[4give]

I'm not sure if you're making a JAO, and that's why your interested in the bread yeast, but if so, the original instructions (on GotMead) state to keep it between 70-80F. That doesn't mean it won't work if in a lower temp, and lower temps do tend to slow fermentation down.

 

[mcrow24]

I'm not sure if you're making a JAO, and that's why your interested in the bread yeast, but if so, the original instructions (on GotMead) state to keep it between 70-80F. That doesn't mean it won't work if in a lower temp, and lower temps do tend to slow fermentation down.

Yeah, I was debating doing a JAO or if temp was an issue doing a JAO inspired recipe with a yeast that would ferment OK at lower temps. I could probably open the vent in the room and get the temp 65-67. That might work out OK for standard JAO.

I guess my main thing would be if just swapping bread yeast out for D47 would ruin the recipe. After reading up more I think EC-1118 would be to fast for this recipe.

 

[rb2112br]

I guess my main thing would be if just swapping bread yeast out for D47 would ruin the recipe. After reading up more I think EC-1118 would be to fast for this recipe.

I may be wrong, but I don't think swapping out bread yeast for something else would ruin the recipe. It may change the flavor somewhat due to the characteristics of the yeast. You also should consider the alcohol tolerance of the yeast you use. I'm not sure what the approx. alcohol tolerance is for bread yeast, but some of the other strains mentioned (K1V1116, DV10, and EC-1118) are fairly high, so you could end up with a stronger, drier JAO than if you used the bread yeast. Other yeast strains may be lower than bread yeast, which would give you a much sweeter, lower ABV finished product. I made two batches a year or so ago. One with buckwheat honey, the other with a local wildflower honey. I used bread yeast for both and they both tasted great, but were borderline too sweet.

 

[Squatchy]

Bread yeast has the lowest alcohol tolerance I know of

 

[mcrow24]

I may be wrong, but I don't think swapping out bread yeast for something else would ruin the recipe. It may change the flavor somewhat due to the characteristics of the yeast. You also should consider the alcohol tolerance of the yeast you use. I'm not sure what the approx. alcohol tolerance is for bread yeast, but some of the other strains mentioned (K1V1116, DV10, and EC-1118) are fairly high, so you could end up with a stronger, drier JAO than if you used the bread yeast. Other yeast strains may be lower than bread yeast, which would give you a much sweeter, lower ABV finished product. I made two batches a year or so ago. One with buckwheat honey, the other with a local wildflower honey. I used bread yeast for both and they both tasted great, but were borderline too sweet.

I would assume if I used switched out the bread yeast for D47 the biggest difference is it would probably be more dry & less sweet?

 

[mcrow24]

I believe I've found my solution for the temp issue! Fish tank heater, place 1g carboy in 5g bucket , fill bucket with water and use the tank heater to keep it 70 or so.

$15 temp control.

 

[Squatchy]

I believe I've found my solution for the temp issue! Fish tank heater, place 1g carboy in 5g bucket , fill bucket with water and use the tank heater to keep it 70 or so.
I'm going to post a new thread to speak of this

 

[bernardsmith]

Here's the thing about bread yeast. The data don't suggest that bread yeast cannot ferment in higher concentrations of sugar. The data don't suggest that bread yeast quits at lower ABVs. But bread yeast has been selected and cultured to produce CO2 and not to enhance fruity flavors when producing alcohol or mask flavors that are undesirable or provide a richer mouthfeel in the mead or wine. Bread yeast, unlike wine yeasts have also not been selected and grown to flocculate well as they ferment. Flocculation is not an issue for bakers. That means when it is time to rack the yeast is still randomly located throughout your fermenter from top to bottom. Removing bread yeast is then a separate challenge, one you tend not to find when using wine yeasts.
In short, using bread yeast to make a wine or a mead is a choice with very specific outcomes. If you choose that yeast because of those outcomes - well and good. If you make that choice without an awareness of those outcomes or better, an understanding of them then bread yeast, however handy, may not be the right choice. If , however, it is your only choice then the bed you make is the bed on which you have to lie.

 

[mcrow24]

Here's the thing about bread yeast. The data don't suggest that bread yeast cannot ferment in higher concentrations of sugar. The data don't suggest that bread yeast quits at lower ABVs. But bread yeast has been selected and cultured to produce CO2 and not to enhance fruity flavors when producing alcohol or mask flavors that are undesirable or provide a richer mouthfeel in the mead or wine. Bread yeast, unlike wine yeasts have also not been selected and grown to flocculate well as they ferment. Flocculation is not an issue for bakers. That means when it is time to rack the yeast is still randomly located throughout your fermenter from top to bottom. Removing bread yeast is then a separate challenge, one you tend not to find when using wine yeasts.
In short, using bread yeast to make a wine or a mead is a choice with very specific outcomes. If you choose that yeast because of those outcomes - well and good. If you make that choice without an awareness of those outcomes or better, an understanding of them then bread yeast, however handy, may not be the right choice. If , however, it is your only choice then the bed you make is the bed on which you have to lie.

Yes, I understand about bread yeast. I was debating going with a JAO and using bread yeast because it seems in that application it works well. However, with my temperature issues (most recent check of temps in my basement are 50-55 degrees) bread yest wont work. So now I'm thinking of using a wine yeast perhaps one that works at lower temps. I'm also thinking of trying to make some sort of temp control setup (not wanting to drop a lot of money for only my second try at mead). Now I'm thinking of using blackberries, 3lb of honey, energizer, nutrient..ect. 1 gallon batch.

 

[Squatchy]

So why can't you make this and keep it upstairs where it's warmer?

You either need to make a JOAM and follow the instructions exactly. Or forget about it and make a regular mead. Most people I know make 1 or at most 2 JOAMS. I don't think they are very good. More a novelty than anything else. If you deviate from the recipe it doesn't work out and is not worth trying. So you either need to make a JOOM with bread yeast. Or make a regular (real) mead and go that route. Part of why a JOAM works is the bread yeast will tap out with a certain amount of residual sugars that will balance itself with the other ingredients. Any other yeast will take it bone dry. And then it tastes like shit because it's out of balance with itself and won't taste very good even if you backsweeten.

 

[mcrow24]

So why can't you make this and keep it upstairs where it's warmer?

You either need to make a JOAM and follow the instructions exactly. Or forget about it and make a regular mead. Most people I know make 1 or at most 2 JOAMS. I don't think they are very good. More a novelty than anything else. If you deviate from the recipe it doesn't work out and is not worth trying. So you either need to make a JOOM with bread yeast. Or make a regular (real) mead and go that route. Part of why a JOAM works is the bread yeast will tap out with a certain amount of residual sugars that will balance itself with the other ingredients. Any other yeast will take it bone dry. And then it tastes like shit because it's out of balance with itself and won't taste very good even if you backsweeten.

No place for it upstairs where the wife will allow it. ;D

We don't have a lot of cabinet/closet space upstairs and she don't want it out in the open even if covered.

That's why I'm asking about temp. I've pretty much decided against JAO because I would have to use a yeast that would make it pretty dry. As I said above I've moved on to more a fruit mead. I'm just trying to sort out what my options are with the space I have to use. Once summer comes around it will be 68-70 in the basement the whole time with one of the closets down there being slightly cooler. But I wanted to get something going now so I'm looking either trying to warm it up a bit or if there is a yeast that will work well enough at lower temps (average temp now is about 58 in the basement).