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fermenting sorbated cider

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marvin54

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Nov 26, 2004
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Hello everyone,

I need some advice. Intending to make Ken Schramms' "Falls Bounty Cyser", I accidently bought 4 gallons of potassium sorbated cider. The labels read "contains 1/10 of 1% potassium sorbate".
After doing some research on sorbate and finding out it doesn't stop an active ferment(and not having a use for 4 gallons of cider otherwise), I decided to go ahead and use the cider.
On 12/12 I made a starter of 10g of D-47 which seemed to go well. 12/13 I mixed the rest of the ingredients and pitched the yeast. As of tonight 12/15, there is very little activity in the fermenter just a few very small bubbles rising slowly to the top.

I really don't see the yeast picking up speed due to the sorbate preventing cell reproduction.
Should I wait a few days and repitch new yeast? or learn my lesson and read labels closer and start over?
thoughts or opinions?

Thanks,
Scott
 

lostnbronx

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Lifetime GotMead Patron
Dec 8, 2004
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Scott,

How active was your starter, and how big? Personally, I think I'd let this go for another day or two, and see if things pick up. What size batch is it? Five gallons, for instance, could take a couple days to get rolling. If you have to repitch, you might want to make a really big starter, and bomb it.

It would help us if you could post your exact recipe.

Thanks.

-David
 

Brewbear

NewBee
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May 10, 2005
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Welcome to the forums ;D
Another thing to consider is the temperature. D-47 will ferment in a range of 50 -86 deg.F so if you would keep it at a mid 70's it will be very happy. The lower the temperature, the slower it will ferment. Also, did you rehydrate with Go-Ferm?
The more details you can provide, the better we can help.

Cheers,
Brewbear
 

Oskaar

Got Mead Partner
Administrator
Dec 26, 2004
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The OC
I dunno guys, sorbated stuff to me is not worth the headache.

You can try but . . . it's sorbated after all so optimism in this place may be misplaced.

Cheers,

Oskaar
 

lostnbronx

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Dec 8, 2004
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Oskaar said:
I dunno guys, sorbated stuff to me is not worth the headache.

You can try but . . . it's sorbated after all so optimism in this place may be misplaced.

Cheers,

Oskaar
People have saved them before. I mean, the guy already started this thing. It's worth a try, isn't it?

-David
 

Brewbear

NewBee
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May 10, 2005
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Yeah....Like Oskaar said before,
Take a chance, Custer did!!

Cheers,
Brewbear
 

Oskaar

Got Mead Partner
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Dec 26, 2004
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Custer is alive and well and living in the body of Gary Busey.

Sure, everything is worth a try, but, I think that at a certain point you just kind of chalk it up to experience and learn to read the labels. Been there done that.

That being said, I'd go with a EC-1118 starter on this one and bring the must temp to about 77 F or so to keep it warm.

Cheers,

Oskaar
 

Brewbear

NewBee
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May 10, 2005
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Learn to read???? What kind of herecy is this???LOL
Think of the possibilities if the sucker starts fermenting tho!

Cheers,
Brewbear
 

JoeM

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Jan 9, 2004
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I made the same mistake a few years ago...i tried and i tried but it never got going...i would be very surprised if you got that sucker to start up, but good luck to you.
 

lostnbronx

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Dec 8, 2004
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Oskaar said:
Custer is alive and well and living in the body of Gary Busey.
Ah, that explains it, 'cause Gary Busey has looked like a guy who somehow survived being butchered for years now. He was in Quigley in 2003 -- a low-budget kids movie wherein he dies and gets reincarnated as a dog. The sad part is, he only had to skip morning make-up in order to play the canine role too. :p

-David
 

hedgehog

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Jan 8, 2005
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Well this is just my 2cents worth..
From what I learned in the sassifrass mead part of my "momentarily more than one gallon" posting, I found out that D-47 can handle some small amounts of sorbate. Anyhow by doing the math, I found out that in the way that I was using my sorbated ingrediants the sorbate came out to 12ppm in the actual must which was below the threshold of ~120ppm for D-47. While 4 gallons with 1/10th of 1% (~10,000ppm in each gallon, so if total must is 6.5 gallons that means ~6154ppm overall) seems like not much, its well over the 120ppm by quite a bit. Unless you happen to have any BIG carboys in which you could dilute this stuff down in, its not looking good for the yeasts. If you are patient and have hope in the little yeasties, you might just want to leave them alone and let them do their thing for a few weeks.
just a though..
hedgehog
 

HighTest

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Registered Member
Aug 27, 2005
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Bridgeton, NJ
marvin54 said:
I need some advice. Intending to make Ken Schramms' "Falls Bounty Cyser", I accidently bought 4 gallons of potassium sorbated cider. The labels read "contains 1/10 of 1% potassium sorbate".
We have a Group Brew in progress (http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=43719) making this exact recipe. Two of the group brewers found themselves in your same situation - used sorbated cider. One of these brewers has successfully restarted his fermentation using our Stuck Fermentation FAQ (http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showforum=36
) - the other brewer did not even try the process. Perhaps this information will help you. ;) Feel free to read the entire group brew topic [24 pages... ::) ]
 

marvin54

NewBee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2004
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First, thanks for all the responces. This forum is great.

The yeast have picked up some, a larger quantity of bigger bubbles rising in the carboy.

Ok, some details:

5 gallon batch
4 gallons cider
8 lbs. clover honey
1 lb. dark brown sugar
.5 lb raisins
.5 lb. chopped dates
2 tsp. energizer
1 tsp. nutrient
10 g D-47
top up with water

For a starter I used 5-6 oz. of warm tap water, 1 oz. each of buckwheat and clover honey and a pinch of yeast nutrient and of yeast energizer. About 5 hours later, the foam pushed a paper towel off the 20 oz. cup I made the starter in. But, it wasn't until the next day that I pitched it. By then there was just a small amount of foam right on top of the liquid. No Go-Ferm used.

The temp. is on the low side in the basement right now. I'll find a warmer spot and move the fermenter.

Lostnbronx, I was thinking the same, throw in a large amount of healthy yeast cells and see what happens.

Hedgehog, your sassafrass post is one of the reasons i went ahead with this batch, I hope I have the same succes you seem to have.

Thanks for the links High Test, looks I'll be reading for a while. LOL

Thanks again for all your responces.

"Heeyyy Mr. Custer......I don't wanna gooo!"
Scott
 

marvin54

NewBee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2004
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47
Everyone,

Just a quick update, activity in the fermenter has picked up nicely, it's bubbling through the airlock about once every 11-12 seconds. I moved the carboy from the 60*F basement to the 67*-68*F nursery also. I haven't taken any gravity readings, maybe in a day or two.

Thanks,
Scott
 

lostnbronx

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Dec 8, 2004
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Marvin,

The warmth should help things along even further. D-47 can take some colder temps, but this is a special case. Is there any place you can move it that's in the seventies?

-David
 

marvin54

NewBee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2004
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"Is there any place you can move it that's in the seventies?"

Not unless I turn up the thermo$tat. It's still bubbling about every 12 seconds, and alot of the raisins/dates are floating on the top. Still haven't gotten a gravity reading yet though.

Scott
 

marvin54

NewBee
Registered Member
Nov 26, 2004
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0
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After 8 days the gravity is 1.090 at 68*F. So its fermenting just not very fast.

Scott
 
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