The newbee question bundle tread!

[Felix Desrosiers]

Hello guys and gals,

I'm totally new to brewing. I'm going to start off my first batch of mead in a couple of days since I'm still waiting for my D-47 Lalvin yeast to be shipped to me...

The first 2 questions are about yeast and sugar. I've seen on the white lab web site a nice mead yeast. Here is the yeast in question.

WLP720 Sweet Mead/Wine Yeast:
A wine yeast strain that is less attenuative than WLP715, leaving some ----residual sweetness. Slightly fruity and will tolerate alcohol concentrations up to 15%. A good choice for sweet mead and cider, as well as Blush wines, Gewürztraminer, Sauternes, Riesling.
Alcohol Tolerance: 15%
Attenuation: <75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 70-75°F

First question, even after some research, the definition of attenuation is still blurry to me. Can anyone help me out with this?

The second question is about somebody who commented on the White Lab mead yeast web page. Here is the relevant part of his comment:

"My batches usually top out around 6-7% ABV when using 3-4lbs of honey/gal, although at 6% and 3.33 lb/gal it's still perhaps a bit too sweet."

Second question, how can you make sweet mead with only 6% Alcohol by volume when the yeast tolerate alcohol up to 15%? I've heard about cold crashing... Is that the trick? I've also read about people cold crashing AND adding sulfite (and sometime even filtering). Can cold crashing by itself be enough if I want to store my mead at room temperature afterward? I want to keep sulfite away as much as possible from my mead.

Lastly, it's about my first simple sweet mead recipe. I'm following a mead brewing book written in 1948 by LT. Colonel Robert Gayre called "Brewing mead, Wassail! In mazer of mead".

Here is the recipe /2:

2.5 US Gallon of water
3Kg of unpasterised clover honey
3 tsp of yeast nutrient
Lalvin ICV D-47 yeast (alcohol tol = 14%, temp 15-20 Celsius)

-Should I use tap water or source water? My tap water is of good quality (Montréal city), but high in chlorine. I will wait 1-2 days to let the chlorine evaporate if I use tap water.
-I wont pasteurise my honey, what do you guy think about it? I read a lot about this, but should my first batch be boiled for the sake of simplicity and safe/easy fermentation?
-Lalvin yeast come in individual package for 5 U.S. gallon batch. Should I only use half of it for 2.5 gallon or should I used it all anyway?
-I know to to take OG and FG and calculate ABV.... But is there a way to estimate it before the fermentation? How do I know the sugar water ratio is good and will leave enough sweetness for my mead? (experimentation I guess...)
-I will use 5 Star San to sanitize my equipment. What do you guys think about this? Would using the washing machine simply be better and without addind chem?

 

[akueck]

Attenuation is a funny number, and frankly it's mostly meaningless. It is somewhat helpful when comparing two strains, but only to a point. Attenuation is how much the OG drops after "full" fermentation. But it is measured on some "standard" must/wort, which you are not likely mixing up, and under some "standard" conditions, which you are not likely using. Most attenuation numbers are for beer worts; I have no idea if they use honey must for the mead yeast or continue to use the "standard" beer wort. Honey is completely fermentable, so if they used a honey must I would expect 100% attenuation all the time. So, essentially, ignore that number and pretend you never saw it.

WLP720 is notorious for sticking early. That is what the comment is about: the yeast crapped out after only a partial fermentation. Usually this is because folks don't properly prepare the yeast, which is a bit more involved than using dry yeast. The cell counts in liquid cultures (White Labs and Wyeast are the most common) are lower than the typical dry packet, and decline much more rapidly during storage. For all but the smallest batches, you need to step up the population of liquid cultures anywhere between 2 and 8 times (usually) before it will fully ferment a batch of mead. Properly fed, built up, and fresh liquid cultures will make good mead that is fully fermented. It just takes more work up front, or to buy a heck of a lot of packs/vials.

Tap water is fine. If it tastes good, it will work. Letting the chlorine off-gas is a lovely idea.

Heat/no heat is a constant debate, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both. It seems that the majority of folks here don't heat, or minimally heat. 10 years ago most people pasteurized or boiled. I'd recommend trying one of each and seeing which you like best. I did that and prefer the no-heat version.

The mead calculator (see link at left sidebar or from the main site) will estimate your OG. Handy tool.

Star San is awesome! Don't fear the foam. Dishwashers often use a surfactant to discourage water spots. Not terribly damaging, but I don't really want JetDry residue in my mead. StarSan has surfactants too, but it is designed for surface sanitation for food-contacting equipment. I buy it by the quart. ;D The only "chemicals" you are using are a few different organic and inorganic acids (where 'organic' here takes the chemical definition, not the "green food non-GMO blah blah" definition).

 

[Marshmallow Blue]

Well, welcome to got mead! I can't answer all the questions, but. To get a sweet 6% mead you use the yeast but, you only use enough honey to go to 6%. The got mead calculator can tell you what starting gravity will get you to 6. Then when it's done, you stabilize it with sulfite a and sorbate, then back sweeten it.

I've also heard some horror stories about the wlabs mead yeasts and you may be better off with one of the regular wine yeasts.

There's a big discussion on what you use for water but as long as it doesn't taste bad it should be fine to make mead. I use spring water, I think fatbloke uses distilled, and people use tap too.

On sanitation. If you sanitize all your equipment there's no need to heat or boil. Star San is a really good no rinse sanitizer. The boil phase seems to be people carrying the knowledge over from beer brewing but mead isn't beer, so the rules are different. Just sanitize and you shouldn't have any germ problems.

On 5gram yeast packs. Just use the whole thing, it gives you more yeast and even if you use half or the whole thing, you're going to have billions of yeast cells by the end of it. So pitch the whole thing and you'll be golden.

Edit. Looks like akueck and I were typing at the same time so lots of the info is the same.

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

If you answered the same question it's all the better. I prefer having multiple opinions and multiple point of views on a subject to get a more accurate picture.

Thank you a lot for your help guys, I will post here again if I have more questions.

 

[psychopomp23]

Salut Felix! I'm asuming your french by the name but i'll write in english so that everyone understands.


For attenuation i'll let the expert answer that one like akuek did.


I've heard good comments about D-47 but i haven't used it yet.

For the water i buy my water from local homebrew store it shouldn't cost you more than 4-5$ even in montréal and at least your sure of the quality. Might just be a hassle to carry around in the subway.

And like they said the calculator here will be one of your best friends! It's great for trying to figure out recipes and stuff.

If you have questions you can always message me en français or english

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

I knew I would find another Quebecer sooner or later on this site. Well, it was pretty darn soon ahah!

I'm curious about the MTL tap water result, so I might simply use it for this testing batch. For the next one, I'll probably bring myself some water from Saint-Xenon. We got a little family shack there in the wild, the well water is crystal clear triple A grade! I'm pretty sure it would make some marvelous brewing water.

Btw, I've had some problems with the calculator. There is no place where I can indicate the max ABV my yeast can tolerate. It assume the yeast can tolerate limitless amount of alcohol... If I can't specify it, I have no idea how the calculator could possibly give me an valid estimated final gravity (FG).

Thats what I would like to know, because I have no idea how sweet it going to be (assuming everything go well and the yeast go all the way). Worst than this, my brain has no idea what a 1.050 or 1.100 gravity mead taste like in term of sweetness intensity. I guess the only solution for this is to brew often.

 

[akueck]

The calculator will estimate the OG, and the %abv if it ferments down to 1.000. You can also input the alcohol level (say 14%) and it will give you the OG you need to create a mead with that much alcohol and a FG of 1.000. 14% is about 1.105. So, theoretically, if you start at 1.120, you would expect to finish around 1.015 (= 1.120 - 1.105). The alcohol tolerance numbers are not hard facts, however, so you might wind up a bit above or below that number at the end.

 

[Chevette Girl]

There's a big discussion on what you use for water but as long as it doesn't taste bad it should be fine to make mead. I use spring water, I think fatbloke uses distilled, and people use tap too.

On sanitation. If you sanitize all your equipment there's no need to heat or boil. Star San is a really good no rinse sanitizer. The boil phase seems to be people carrying the knowledge over from beer brewing but mead isn't beer, so the rules are different. Just sanitize and you shouldn't have any germ problems.

Salut Felix! Glad to see another Canuck here! Welcome to the forum!

Actually I think boiling is a holdover from when you could never be sure your water was germ-free... Once you get your procedures down, doing multiple batches with the same amounts of the same honey and different sources of water might be something you want to try. I've made wine and mead with both Ottawa tapwater (chloramines) and the same run through a Brita filter and I have never noticed a difference, but then, my palate's not so sophisticated so I probably need to taste them side by side so it's on my very long list of things to brew...

I've never bothered leaving the city water out to let the chlorine dissipate, and if your water has chloramines in it anyway like Ottawa water does (you'd have to check, I'm not sure where you'd start looking though! maybe call the water treatment plant if you can't find the info online). they probably still won't go away, but I'm told that one campden tablet will react with all the chloramines in five gallons of city water (a friend who brews beer uses this trick, apparently chloramines make beer taste bad.

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

I will have to ask my aquarium supplier a question since I got a liquid anti-chloramine solution. I'll ask him if it leave any kind of residues into water or it just break down. If it does, it might be a solution already in my hands.

It's main ingredients are sodium thiosulfate and sodium carbonate. But again,
I migt want to simply do a flavor test before before adding any more stuff into my brewing water. If it makes no difference for brewing mead, then f**k it I'll just boil the tap or source water before using it.

 

[akueck]

I'd prefer using potassium metabisulfite instead of that de-chloramine-er. You don't want to add much sodium to your water. Sulfites will react with the chloramine and the whole shebang just floats away in the air.

Apparently you can tell if you have chlorine or chloramine in the water by filling a white bucket. Look down into the bucket. Is it green or blue? Blue means chlorine and green means chloramine.

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

Ok so here we go!

My first batch of mead, a 2.20 U.S gallon with 3 kg of clove honey in a 3 gallon glass fermenter has just been mixed with Lalvin D-47 yeast.

Tons of questions already... First of all, my stupid organization mistakes...

I did not mixed the water and the honey before pouring it into the jar. It seemed to mix not very well because of the cold temperature of the room (20 oC) so I shook the whole jar to help honey dissolve a bit.

Unfortunately, even that seem not enough and a layer of honey has formed at the bottom of the jar. I added the yeast afterward even though i know this is probably going to turn bad somewhere... I know that after yeast has been added, you must not oxygenate water. Should I slowly stir the mix in the next days to help the whole mixture dissolve correctly or will it naturally dissolve and blend?

Next time, I will dissolve it in a metal cooking pot AT 35-40 oC and THEn pour it into the jar... I feel stupid not thinking about it earlier.

I used some Lalvin D-47 yeast for this batch. I rehydrated it for 20 minutes, but it did not bubble during rehydratation. Is it normal? I know there is no sugar to be eaten by the yeast... So technically it should not bubble.

No idea of the initial gravity, since the honey was not well dissolved. I got an early reading of 1.050, but it should be something like 1.130.

I'll keep in touch with you guys on how it goes on.

 

[Marshmallow Blue]

Alrighty let's see what I can answer, you may not be too bad off. As far as oxygen after the yeast is added. This is actually good during the first few days of fermentation. So while you can shake it all together. It will get the honey mixed in as well as aerate the must. This helps with a healthy fermentation, along with nutrients, and temperature, ph, and all that good stuff.

Since your honey is mostly separated or partially so, the gravity reading may be off, which will explain it. If you took a gravity reading from the water with less honey and one from the must thats got all the honey at the bottom, the difference would be night and day.

Once you get the honey evenly infused, then take a grav reading. It will be more accurate.

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

I just stirred the must and the honey seem to evenly blend, the color through the jar is uniform.

Three to four hours after pitching the yeast, I still see no bubble forming or escaping through the airlock. Should I be worried?

 

[Chevette Girl]

Don't sweat it Felix, sometimes it takes a day or two before you see evidence of fermentation. If you hit 48 hours and still no signs of fermentation, THEN start to worry

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

IT BUBBLIN, finally!

Even better, it has a really nice smell coming out of it, can't way to see the final result.

I will stir it up one last time, gently, then take the gravity reading.

Here is another question : Is it necessary to rack the mead in another fermenter once the yeast has settled at the bottom? It is just to get a really clear mead or it does change the taste?

When I rack, do I need to be careful to not oxygenate the mead as much as possible?

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

Also, it really bother me having to get the sterilizing agent out each time I want to sterilize one thing or two (a stirring spoon or the gravimeter).

How cautious must I really be about contamination? Could I just pour hot water over my instruments for 10-15 seconds? Or do I need to immerse them for 30-60 sec in boiling water?

 

[psychopomp23]

Also, it really bother me having to get the sterilizing agent out each time I want to sterilize one thing or two (a stirring spoon or the gravimeter).

How cautious must I really be about contamination? Could I just pour hot water over my instruments for 10-15 seconds? Or do I need to immerse them for 30-60 sec in boiling water?

I always clean my equipment with the sterilizing products but you suggestion that i got from my LHBS is to make a gallon or whatever (water/juice bottle/jug) and make a 'batch' of your cleaning products and then keep it in the fridge. You'll be able to keep it for about a month. So that way you don't need to make some everytime

 

[Marshmallow Blue]

+1 to Psychopomp. I keep my starsan in a 5 gal bucket for cleaning the racking cane a siphon tubes. For everything else I keep a spray bottle with starsan in it, and just about everything gets spritzed by its magic powers, since you only need to cover the surface area as opposed to soaking it.

My rule of thumb on how long it keeps, As long as when you shake it, it makes soapy type bubbles, your good to go!

 

[Felix Desrosiers]

Thanks to both of you, I did has you guys recommended

Also, three days after the yeast has been pitched, I read a 1.060 gravity. It seems abnormal considering I followed a recipe that had a 1.130 OG (sack mead). Could the yeast already have eaten 50% of the sugar in less than 4 full days?

To be exact, I started my batch monday 24 of March at 20:00 eastern time. Gravity taken thursday at 13:00 give me a 1.060...

Awkward... Since I do my mead without initially boiling the honey, it could be that the mead was not well mixed. It did form a layer the first day, but I stirred it twice after that and there is only a white layer forming now (from my bear experience, it's probably a mix of biproduct and residual yeast). I think the honey should be quite well mixed by now.

Maybe... Just maybe... Could the honey be so heavy that, even evenly blended, it tend to precipitate and leave a lighter layer (less sweet) at the top of the jar? I should probably have stirred the must before taking my reading, it might be where that strange reading come from.

 

[bigdan110]

it could be co2 bubbles clinging to ur hydrometer giving you a false result