I've been making fruit wines for a few years but have only started to make meads. Until now I have gone out of my way to use spring water from a NY State source (it's free but a bit of a pain to obtain in the winter months) rather than use our municipal water (with its fluorine and chlorine and other biocides). My question: our tap water tastes fine but is it better to use spring water rather than tap water for mead making? How likely is it that if I leave a bucket of the water exposed to the air that all the fluorides and chlorine will evaporate off?
A question of water
- Thread starter bernardsmith
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I know that the chlorine will evaporate out. Not sure about flourides. Even if it does, you are left with whatever minerals your tap water might have dissolved in it. It may be fine. Or the type and quantities of minerals may hinder fermentation and/or give off flavors. My tap water is quite hard, and even filtering it isnt sufficient. There's only one way to know for sure, I guess, but I would get as much spring water as you can while you can. <g>
Joe
When I started brewing, I went to the store and purchased 1 liter of every spring water sold in bulk. I then did a side by side tasting. That's right. A side by side tasting of water. I chose the best tasting water and have stuck with it.
Perhaps try this so that you have an easier option. It has the added benefit of already being sterile!
Perhaps try this so that you have an easier option. It has the added benefit of already being sterile!
The spring water from the state park has the state seal on it. I don't think that it is "sterile" but it is certified as safe and additive free and the mineral composition of the water is listed. I guess my problem is that I think of water as a public resource and not something that someone can sell or have other people buy. And our state water is clean (fracking has not been permitted!) and tastes good and makes good coffee and tea and does not stain or damage clothes when used to clean them.
If chlorine or fluorine are a concern, just drop in a campden tablet. You can also boil it for a few minutes. Municipal water at my location is very good and is only lightly chlorinated, so I never bother with bottled water.
Don't forget that yeast need trace minerals too, so distilled water may not be the best option unless you are dosing with nutrients. Which sort of defeats the purpose of distilled water in the first place.
I do like loveofrose's idea about side-by-side water comparisons. Shall have to try that some time.
Don't forget that yeast need trace minerals too, so distilled water may not be the best option unless you are dosing with nutrients. Which sort of defeats the purpose of distilled water in the first place.
I do like loveofrose's idea about side-by-side water comparisons. Shall have to try that some time.
Chloramine or some such is being used in some of our longer pipe lines, because it doesn't blow off the way Chlorine will... It's a PITA for some of my friends who keep fish, but there is a way to get it to disperse.
I've never used anything but tapwater for my meads, but that's maybe because I'm a cheapskate and we have some of the best municipal water in the world in my city.
When wines and meads have nasty sulfur smells and other pollutants, one way fo fixing it is to bubble CO2 though the drink. CO2 will strip many of the volatiles out of the liquid as it bubbles through.
IMHO, that means that our chlorine and flourine should mostly dissipate out the airlock. AFAIK mineral content is much more of a concern than volatiles.
Hard water that doesn't lather well makes a poor drink.
I've never used anything but tapwater for my meads, but that's maybe because I'm a cheapskate and we have some of the best municipal water in the world in my city.
When wines and meads have nasty sulfur smells and other pollutants, one way fo fixing it is to bubble CO2 though the drink. CO2 will strip many of the volatiles out of the liquid as it bubbles through.
IMHO, that means that our chlorine and flourine should mostly dissipate out the airlock. AFAIK mineral content is much more of a concern than volatiles.
Hard water that doesn't lather well makes a poor drink.
Fluoride is added as a salt, sodium fluoride or equivalent. At high (toxic) concentrations it would taste salty, but at the concentrations it is used (~0.7 ppm) it has no detectable taste. It is nonreactive and impossible to remove short of reverse osmosis or distillation. It should have no effect on mead flavor, and an effect on fermentation is unlikely but can't be ruled out without data.
Chlorine is a reactive oxidizer, both detectable in flavor/aroma and bad for yeast. It can be reduced by allowing water to sit open to air or rapidly eliminated by adding sulfite at levels as low as one campden tablet per 20 gallons. There will still, however, be very low levels of "chlorination byproducts" - chlorine bonded to proteins and other organic molecules - which are more stable though they are unlikely to contribute a detectable taste.
Chlorine is a reactive oxidizer, both detectable in flavor/aroma and bad for yeast. It can be reduced by allowing water to sit open to air or rapidly eliminated by adding sulfite at levels as low as one campden tablet per 20 gallons. There will still, however, be very low levels of "chlorination byproducts" - chlorine bonded to proteins and other organic molecules - which are more stable though they are unlikely to contribute a detectable taste.
Chlorine will dissipate just being left open to air (and would probably be driven off more easily with CO2), but chloramines are used specifically because they don't dissipate and I don't think CO2 would do it. As I understand, a campden tablet for 5 gallons is sufficient to convert chloramines into a form of nitrogen that yeast can eat, I'm guessing it releases the chlorine into the air.
Ottawa water has a pH around 8.4 and about 4 grains of hardness, and it uses about 1 ppm fluoride (had a summer job at the water plant, I drink the stuff straight from the tap) but I never found out if/how that dissippates. Fluorine is the most reactive element if I recall correctly, so maybe it'll bug off with campden tablets too, but this is pure speculation with my decade out of date degree...
Ottawa water has a pH around 8.4 and about 4 grains of hardness, and it uses about 1 ppm fluoride (had a summer job at the water plant, I drink the stuff straight from the tap) but I never found out if/how that dissippates. Fluorine is the most reactive element if I recall correctly, so maybe it'll bug off with campden tablets too, but this is pure speculation with my decade out of date degree...
If your water is really hard, get a softener
If it is really nasty, get a reverse osmosis filter.
Small reverse osmosis filters are fairly cheap and remove something like 99% of unwanted garbage, but one caveat, the small ones only do about 20-30 gal/day
Be sure to get one with activated carbon for odor/chlorine/fluorine chemical removal
The only drawback is that the water coming out is damned near equal to distilled.
My orchids are really sensitive to water purity and they love the reverse osmosis filter.
I use mechanical/carbon filtered tap water for my meads to leave the trace elements.
If it is really nasty, get a reverse osmosis filter.
Small reverse osmosis filters are fairly cheap and remove something like 99% of unwanted garbage, but one caveat, the small ones only do about 20-30 gal/day
Be sure to get one with activated carbon for odor/chlorine/fluorine chemical removal
The only drawback is that the water coming out is damned near equal to distilled.
My orchids are really sensitive to water purity and they love the reverse osmosis filter.
I use mechanical/carbon filtered tap water for my meads to leave the trace elements.
If your water is really hard, you have a valid reason to own a large still... :-D
Dual purposing here we come!
NB: At least here downunder it's legal to distill water, just not alcohol.
Dual purposing here we come!
NB: At least here downunder it's legal to distill water, just not alcohol.
Read so many threads here and elsewhere about water and home brew.
There does seem to just be so much conjecture......
The one thing that is apparent, that it seems the brews (various) that have received the plaudits for tasting "the best", all seem to come from soft water areas.
You will easily find evidence (provable), that utility water is and generally will be "cleaner" than any so called spring water.
Of course, there is likely to be issues of taste/flavour as people are often surprised how it can change with such tiny amounts of trace minerals and that they can pick up on it.
Personally, I suspect the argument about trace mineral being necessary is likely to be complete bollocks. I use 2 energiser to 1 nutrient to provide all the nutrients and minerals needed. Plus because I experimented with hard and soft waters in respect of taste in resulting brews, I find that I can taste the harsher notes that come from water with elevated calcium and magnesium salts (local water here comes through chalk, so lots of calcium......).
I find, that too my taste its easiest just to use RO water to provide consistency.
Its fine suggesting water softeners for hard water area but thats usually gonna require salt (don't know of the chemistry of softeners but salt seems to be the usual material added to soften water). I like salt on my fries/chips and with my margaritas, not in my meads.
We are now on a water meter anyway, as the thieving b******s who now run the service wanted ways of squeezing more out of us, so I just bought a reverse osmosis filter and am currently working out a minimal rain harvest system. The RO filter should strip any airbourne pollutants out and the water while relatively small in quantity (35 gallons per day) is plenty to supply my home brew and Clares orchid watering needs......
There does seem to just be so much conjecture......
The one thing that is apparent, that it seems the brews (various) that have received the plaudits for tasting "the best", all seem to come from soft water areas.
You will easily find evidence (provable), that utility water is and generally will be "cleaner" than any so called spring water.
Of course, there is likely to be issues of taste/flavour as people are often surprised how it can change with such tiny amounts of trace minerals and that they can pick up on it.
Personally, I suspect the argument about trace mineral being necessary is likely to be complete bollocks. I use 2 energiser to 1 nutrient to provide all the nutrients and minerals needed. Plus because I experimented with hard and soft waters in respect of taste in resulting brews, I find that I can taste the harsher notes that come from water with elevated calcium and magnesium salts (local water here comes through chalk, so lots of calcium......).
I find, that too my taste its easiest just to use RO water to provide consistency.
Its fine suggesting water softeners for hard water area but thats usually gonna require salt (don't know of the chemistry of softeners but salt seems to be the usual material added to soften water). I like salt on my fries/chips and with my margaritas, not in my meads.
We are now on a water meter anyway, as the thieving b******s who now run the service wanted ways of squeezing more out of us, so I just bought a reverse osmosis filter and am currently working out a minimal rain harvest system. The RO filter should strip any airbourne pollutants out and the water while relatively small in quantity (35 gallons per day) is plenty to supply my home brew and Clares orchid watering needs......
Water quality in Netherlands and rain barrel
The water over here is mostly ozone disinfected.... some are UV disinfected. Very little chlorine and frankly, it tastes really good!!! And, as good as it is, I also have a rain barrel that I have eyed from time to time. What do the microbiologists among you think of boiled rain water for making mead?
The water over here is mostly ozone disinfected.... some are UV disinfected. Very little chlorine and frankly, it tastes really good!!! And, as good as it is, I also have a rain barrel that I have eyed from time to time. What do the microbiologists among you think of boiled rain water for making mead?
If you boil it there won't be much microbiology to worry about.
Rain water, like distilled water, contains very little in the way of dissolved ions (calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, etc.). These contribute micronutrients for yeast and also affect the mouthfeel of the finished product. You can always add "hardness" with gypsum and other mineral salts, though I don't know enough to recommend which ones and how much.
Rain water, like distilled water, contains very little in the way of dissolved ions (calcium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride, etc.). These contribute micronutrients for yeast and also affect the mouthfeel of the finished product. You can always add "hardness" with gypsum and other mineral salts, though I don't know enough to recommend which ones and how much.
Good to know. I am about 4 meters below sea level, so maybe i only need to boil for 30 seconds. Grin
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Except in the middle of a hurricane, when you'd be safer going for the whole minute. If you can put up with the extra wait. Grin
Wonder how much faster if in a pressure cooker? Been wanting to buy one, this experiment sounds like the perfect excuse!
Depending on the pressure you can get with your pressure cooker, it will probably be enough to just get it to the point where the steam starts to escape. It will have likely spent more than a minute at temperatures over 100C by that point. With a pressure cooker, you also have the possibility of reaching sterilization levels. Most pressure cookers won't get you there, but some will. Can't remember the exact temps and times needed, but something like 123C for 20 minutes should do the trick. Useful if you're ever planning on making plates and slants for growing your own yeast. But I digress.
Hello bernardsmith:
If your spring water's origin is geothermal, I would be more concern on its sulfurs. I don't know sulfurs' influence on fermenting or aging. I suggest you to try both waters and after their clarification decide which one is better for you.
Saludes,
