First Batch, First Post: Smells like Orange Juice??

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Valcarion

NewBee
Registered Member
Jan 17, 2018
148
1
0
Hey all!

I’ve been lurking here for a week or so, reading constantly and assimilating as much knowledge as possible. You guys are awesome, and this community gives me hope for the internet!

So going by other posts on this forum, I’ll go ahead and write out the recipe I used and the process and observations up to this point:

1 gallon Carboy

~3lbs Desert Wildflower Raw Honey (purchased at Costco, researched it and it seemed to be pure and unprocessed. I would say there was about 3-4 spoonfuls missing when I made the must, as I had used some of it on various foods to “examine” the flavor;))
1/2 gallon Icelandic Glacial Spring Water
1 packet D47
Fermax Nutrient

Day 1
Filled up the carboy with water and a capful of IoStar sanitizer, shook it up, and let it sit while I prepared the ingredients. I realize now that I should have spent the extra money for a non-iodine solution, but hindsight is 20/20 at this point. I used a pitcher filled with hot water from the sink and set each bottle of water in it one at a time to warm them up to room temp ~68F (they were in the refrigerator at the convenience store I bought them from). I also warmed the honey bottle this way. After sanitizing the carboy and cap I put the honey and water in the carboy, capped it, and shook vigorously to oxygenate and mix the must. After that I sanitized the airlock and bung, hydrated the yeast briefly (I could have done this better, just put the yeast packet in water and stirred it for a few seconds), and pitched the yeast. Capped it again, shook it vigorously, and then put the airlock on and let it sit. After maybe 20 minutes I added 1/2tsp Fermax and aerated again. Temperature in the house is a constant 68F. Signs of fermentation appeared after 6-8 hours.

Day 2
Fermentation started to pick up a bit, bubble popped in the airlock every 15 seconds or so. I know that it’s not a reliable indicator, but I don’t have a Hydrometer so that’s my indicator for now! Added another 1/2tsp Fermax about 24 hours after pitching and aerated again. Degassing every 2 hours with the airlock on because I can’t stop watching it! Sweet smell from the top, just slightly bready/yeasty, but in a pleasant way. Late at night I poured a tiny sample to taste, and it was smooth and slightly carbonated, and I swear I felt a little warmth in my chest, although that seems crazy fast for enough alcohol to have appeared. By the end of the day the airlock is bubbling every 3-5 seconds, but I’m degassing every 2 hours or so. Speeds back up quickly after degassing though, so my little friends are doing work! Tasted again and it’s very smooth, a bit more carbonated now, and seems very palatable. Definitely a bit of warmth to it in the chest, but no bite on the mouth. I’m noticing a bit more Lees before each degassing now.

Day 3
Came down to see it bubbling away, although it seemed a little slower today. Degassed and smelled, and I was surprised to find it smelled like orange juice?! Almost a sickly sweet smell. Not “oh my god no” unpleasant, but not as nice as the day before. I degassed again and ran to check this forum for ideas. I read a few posts that spoke of sulphuric/rotten eggs smell, and that that indicated the yeast were having a rough go of it and more nutrients could help. While the smell my batch is giving off isn’t that horrible, I decided to add 1/4tsp of Fermax and aerated/mixed it a bit. It’s bubbling away again now and the smell seems to have *mostly* gone away. Still a good amount of Lees settling relatively quickly after degassing.

So my 2 questions:

1. What was that smell, and have I done a decent enough job to hopefully mitigate it? I know that ph and hydrometer readings would be the way to tell, but as of right now any guesses or advice? The smell wasn’t overly pungent, but it smelled like a bottle of orange juice to me, and I didn’t expect it so now I’m worried.

2. Anything to know about amount of lees at the bottom of my batch? At this point in fermentation should I be seeing a bunch or is this abnormal? I lose sleep over my little guys dying in a toxic environment, so I’m just wanting to make sure that they’re not dying off. Hoping they’re just fat and lazy and a good stir every few hours is all they need.

Thanks much for any insights!


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Late edit: Day 2 wasn’t clear about tasting because I wrote it wrong. I only tasted it once that day. The “late at night” tasting was done on day 1 because I’m crazy and couldn’t stop myself >.<


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That yeast strain will make off odors if ran too hot. I ferment that strain at 64 degrees. You also need to keep the lees stirred up each day to help to prevent off flavors as well. You really could have done a great deal better if you would have started them off in a much better manner.
Get your temps lower and stir every day
 
Yeah, I jumped the gun before learning how to properly acclimate the yeast to its environment. That was my fault, but I’m hoping I still end up with a drinkable batch. When I rack to secondary I’m starting a new batch with much more knowledge.

I will continue to stir the lees. I’ve been pretty anal about degassing and stirring.

Any ideas on ways to lower the temp to around 64F? I can’t make this house colder without pissing off the lady, and I don’t have any sort of small refrigerator to work with... Will I still attain a decent result at 68F for this batch or am I SOL?

Thank you for replying Squatchy. I have learned so much from reading your comments on this forum. I tend to search for your replies when reading a post!


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Can you place the must in a bucket or something filled with water? Then drop a t-shirt or similar around the vessel and into the water. Then run a fan at it so the water will dry on the shirt and draw more from the bottom to cool it this way?
Can you put it in a basement? Or in a room and open the window overnight. Try D21 if you can't keep the temps lower.
 
I’ll look into the t shirt idea. That’s smart. I live in Vegas so during the day it’s 70ish and at night it’s a crapshoot, usually would be decent temps. Maybe I’ll place it in the garage at night and bring it in in the morning.

D21? I’ll start researching that strain. I had read D24 was the best choice for sweeter meads, but I need to figure out a better temp control


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Well now I’m smelling a bit more alcohol and not so much of that other smell. Tasted a bit just now, tastes fine, nothing strange to report. I think I may be getting some fusels but I don’t really know for sure. I’ll do some more research on it. Fermentation is still going fine so I’ll just continue with what I’m doing and hope for the best!


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With that yeast if you are around 67 degrees you will already be making fusels. I would still try to cool it down
 
I’ll do my best. I feel like this batch is going to end up on the shelf for a year. It’s starting to put off REALLY strong rotten egg smells. Not sure what to do other than degas and pray. Do I add even more nutrients or should I not open it to the air again?


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Sorry for asking so many questions. Everything started off so well I thought, but I messed up somehow obviously.


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Well, it's the heat that is causing problems. Feed all your nutrients by the 1/3 sugar break. There is a podcast that starts on 9/5 here on Gotmeadlive. I walk through the most modern protocol step by step to teach how to employ the most modern science.
 
Great, I’ll start listening right now. Thanks a ton Squatchy.


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I degassed real well and did add a bit more nutrient and oxygen since it’s still early. I really need to get a hydrometer...

It’s slightly below 60 today outside so I have the batch in the garage on a table close to the outside garage door. Hopefully it’ll stay this cool until fermentation is complete.

Last question (yeah right!):
Are temperature fluctuations really bad for this particular yeast? I’m thinking having it colder, even if it fluctuates, is better than having it warmer, and I’m sure a constant correct temp would be ideal, but I just want to make sure I’m not making things worse.


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I degassed real well and did add a bit more nutrient and oxygen since it’s still early. I really need to get a hydrometer...

It’s slightly below 60 today outside so I have the batch in the garage on a table close to the outside garage door. Hopefully it’ll stay this cool until fermentation is complete.

Last question (yeah right!):
Are temperature fluctuations really bad for this particular yeast? I’m thinking having it colder, even if it fluctuates, is better than having it warmer, and I’m sure a constant correct temp would be ideal, but I just want to make sure I’m not making things worse.


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So that is a hard one to answer. Without a doubt this one gets cranky as soon as you step out of its favorite temp zones and makes fusels. And. Yeast also doesn't really enjoy much variation, or fluctuations of the temps either. If you place it in a larger container of water it will minimize the temp fluctuations some becasue a larger mass of water will change slower than a small mass of water. I would try to do this if you can. Your kind of stuck in the middle I do realize.
 
So that is a hard one to answer. Without a doubt this one gets cranky as soon as you step out of its favorite temp zones and makes fusels. And. Yeast also doesn't really enjoy much variation, or fluctuations of the temps either. If you place it in a larger container of water it will minimize the temp fluctuations some becasue a larger mass of water will change slower than a small mass of water. I would try to do this if you can. Your kind of stuck in the middle I do realize.

Well, I have a large Home Depot bucket that I’ve used for drywall/concrete... so you’re saying that the best solution right now is to take the batch and place it in the bucket filled with water close to 64F and then place this bucket in my garage to keep it cool but slowly fluctuating? According to the forecast, it’ll be between 40F-60F from night to day for the next 7 days, mostly around 48-58 during the better part of the day.

Ughhhh this is annoying lol. I’m definitely getting a different yeast next time.


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You would do well to run your next idea past us first so we can save you some heartache. You will need to consider temps with every strain you use. Also YAN requirements, and kill factor. Look it up
 
You would do well to run your next idea past us first so we can save you some heartache. You will need to consider temps with every strain you use. Also YAN requirements, and kill factor. Look it up

I definitely will. I’ve learned so much in such a short amount of time. I wish I had known everything I know now before I pitched. Lesson learned, look before you leap.

So I put the batch out in the garage on a table and have let it sit for a few hours. That smell is completely gone, and it’s starting to smell better than ever! Fermentation signs (bubbles on the surface) have slowed though, so I’m guessing it’s a little colder than it should be now. I wrapped it in a beach towel to protect it from the light whenever we go out there, and also to *hopefully* help it get just a tiny bit warmer. I stuck a thermometer in the airlock water and it was slightly lower than the 60F mark. Hopefully I’m doing right by the little guys.


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So I checked the gravity yesterday on this batch. 1.018. Figured it was nearly done, as it was the same as the day before. Came out this morning to check it and it had that strong rotten eggs smell again, though not as bad as last time. So I added just a tiny bit more nutrient and aerated the hell out of it. Really hoping that helps it along its last legs. Fusel smell/taste is very strong, but past the initial bite it does have a nice flavor, although I didn’t check it since the smell came back. I’ve made a lot of mistakes on this one, but I’m hoping I can salvage a decent mead, given enough aging. Did I do the right thing?


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1.012 now. Looks like they were struggling, and it seems the nutrients helped. Will continue to monitor. It’s slow as hell, but it’s still working.

The fusels are so strong, burns in the mouth and down the throat, taste is very unpleasant until the burning sensation is gone, and then I’m left with a relatively pleasant sweetness at the end. Looks like this is going to be taking up a carboy for a looong time, but I have hope that it’ll turn out at least passably. Definitely learned my lesson about D47 temps and yeast rehydration.


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So once it's finished fermenting you can add a small piece of copper pipe to it to help with the smell. Go buy as short of a piece as you can. Don't use it yet. Until I teach you how. Try very hard to stir the smell out of suspension. Don't drink anymore. Those fusels are very bad for your brain. That strain is really nice once you can learn to keep them happy. Finish listening to my podcast. You will know more than most people on here once you do!

Lastly, most of the fermentation is past the point of temps making a huge difference. The damage is already done. Try to place your mead in a place that will keep it in the low sixties and the less variation you have the better for the yeast. Stir the hell out of it several times a day if you have to. to keep the smell out as much as possible. Over time that can attach itself to you mean and become permanent.