Fermaid K and Fermaid O
- Thread starter Malcavian
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Frankly, if you would have asked me this a couple of years ago I may have been able to have a more detailed answer, but it's been so long since I switched that all I can say with conviction is saying to myself "goodbye Fermaid K"
Now, let's be fair. Before O came along I was perfectly happy with DAP and K and plenty of people still use K and are making great mead with it. I happen to prefer O because at least to my nose and when I taste, the entire ferment is cleaner and generally more pleasant. I have consumed all mead I made with Fermaid K so it would be inaccurate to say O is "better" at this point. My perception is that it is better.
I think that like many subjective things O vs K is up to the user. What I did was make back to back batches using the same ingredients (two BOMMs) and the O was better. I think if you search you might find some of my posts at the time.
Now, let's be fair. Before O came along I was perfectly happy with DAP and K and plenty of people still use K and are making great mead with it. I happen to prefer O because at least to my nose and when I taste, the entire ferment is cleaner and generally more pleasant. I have consumed all mead I made with Fermaid K so it would be inaccurate to say O is "better" at this point. My perception is that it is better.
I think that like many subjective things O vs K is up to the user. What I did was make back to back batches using the same ingredients (two BOMMs) and the O was better. I think if you search you might find some of my posts at the time.
You should watch episode #7 of the Meadology series, by Canadian Sasquatch, on YouTube. He explains the basics of SNA (staggered nutrient additions) and YAN (Yeast Assimilable Nitrogen).
Basically yeast need a certain amount of YAN during fermentation. There are equations for calculating how much YAN you need for a specific yeast and batch size, TOSNA and TiOSNA being two of the more recent.
Roughly, DAP has about 200 ppm of YAN, Fermaid K 100 ppm and Fermaid O 50 ppm.
The trend seems to being going towards Organic nutrients (Feramid O), which is a little more expensive, and away from DAP and Fermaid K (which also has some DAP in it). But what helps offset that cost is that, when using the TOSNA protocol, you end up using approx. 1/4 the amount of Fermaid O. This can get halved again if you end up fermenting with fruit.
So, you also need to check out the meadmaderight website.
All that being said, some of the best mead makers in the US are still using DAP and nutrients with DAP in them. I "think" one of those is Ken Schramm. Personally, when I started , I bought a big bag of DAP and some Fermaid K, and so will continue to keep using it until it is gone. It's probably more important to be working on my technique than worrying about whether I can taste the difference between using K or O.
Oh, and from my limited expense, Fermaid O seems to ferment slower than Fermaid K and DAP.
It's a complicated answer actually. It's like asking if vitamins or calories are better. The truth is you need both in proper quantities. I discuss it in depth here:
https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/
Long story short:
TOSNA for dry yeast
Liquid Yeast Fermaid O Protocol for liquid yeast.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Liquid-yeast-SNA/
Long story short:
TOSNA for dry yeast
Liquid Yeast Fermaid O Protocol for liquid yeast.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here are my 2 cents on nutrients in order of most to least importance:
1) NEVER EVER use urea. Would you piss in your must? This is essentially what you do when you add urea
2) Avoid adding straight DAP. This is an inorganic only source of nitrogen and essentially is like candy to a child over a proper meal. It tastes good and gives loads of what is needed and burned out fast leading to temps spikes and faulty yeast replication. Just don't do it!
3) As far as fermaid k vs. O there are benefits to each as one is mostly organic with some DAP and the other is only organic.
BUT there is a caveat here too. Above 9% abv most yeast have difficulty using inorganic nitrogen- which is all of DAP and some of fermaid K.
My humble recommendation: no matter what you use for your first additions- be it K or O- use ONLY fermaid O in final addition as you ar above 9% by this point- except session meads.
1) NEVER EVER use urea. Would you piss in your must? This is essentially what you do when you add urea
2) Avoid adding straight DAP. This is an inorganic only source of nitrogen and essentially is like candy to a child over a proper meal. It tastes good and gives loads of what is needed and burned out fast leading to temps spikes and faulty yeast replication. Just don't do it!
3) As far as fermaid k vs. O there are benefits to each as one is mostly organic with some DAP and the other is only organic.
BUT there is a caveat here too. Above 9% abv most yeast have difficulty using inorganic nitrogen- which is all of DAP and some of fermaid K.
My humble recommendation: no matter what you use for your first additions- be it K or O- use ONLY fermaid O in final addition as you ar above 9% by this point- except session meads.
