How much honey before cider is cyser?

[mannye]

I want to make a 12-16 % cider or I guess Apple wine at that point. I have this guy here:



And 7 pounds of OB honey and I one last 1388. I wanted to leave it bubbling when I leave to North Carolina (seven devils) on Christmas Day. But I want a quick cider not a one year wine.

I can live with 10% if I have to. Will adding honey to get to the correct SG put me in cyser territory? Will using white or corn sugar be better?

I want to end up tart and dry. I don't mind adding some malic acid at the end of I have to.


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[WVMJack]

LOR has a cyser BOMM which sounds like what you are after, WVMJ

 

[mannye]

I think that's it.


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[EbonHawk]

What's the status on this one? Just found this thread...

I have made a ton of cysers. Have 2 that are bottled and sitting in my pantry right now. One is good, one is not-so-good. :-( But I know what I did wrong, so it just gets used for cooking, or mixing with other stuff. Or as "decoys" in the garage fridge so when my dad comes poking around I can grin wickedly when he calls me up and says, "What the hell is that stuff in the brown bottles in your fridge marked 'C 7-14'?! Is it paint remover?!?!"

I can live with 10% if I have to. Will adding honey to get to the correct SG put me in cyser territory? Will using white or corn sugar be better?

I think it's really a personal call whether it's cyser or cider, as I haven't seen anything "official" on the wording other than it being "any fermentation mixture containing cider and honey as the primary fermentables", paraphrased of course.

I would say if you start with apple cider and add more than a half-cup of honey, it's cyser in my book. My cysers range from 14 to 16% pretty much every time, and I just use a standard acid blend for tartness. Honestly, not sure what's in my acid blend, but it's just called "acid blend". Guess I should get more picky with my ingredients for more consistency. But, if I can drink it and enjoy it, I don't really care much what's in it.

 

[valverij]

The BJCP guidelines (available here: http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php) state under "INTRODUCTION TO CIDER GUIDELINES
(CATEGORIES 27-28)"

The only adjunct permitted in the Standard category, and only in some sub-categories, is a limited addition of sugar to achieve a suitable starting gravity. Note that honey is not a “sugar” for this purpose; a cider made with added honey must be entered either as a Specialty cider or as a Cyser under the appropriate mead sub-category. Other sugar sources that also add significant flavors (brown sugar, molasses) would also create a Specialty cider (such as New England style).

And under section 28D, when defining the "Other Specialty Cider/Perry" category, it states this:

A cider with added honey may be entered here if the cider character remains dominant. Otherwise it should be entered as mead in the cyser sub-category.

And then, finally, a little further up in the document in section 25A, it defines a cyser as such (excerpts, obviously):

Aroma: Depending on the sweetness and strength, a subtle to
distinctly identifiable honey and apple/cider character [...]

Flavor: The apple and honey flavor intensity may vary from none
to high [...]

Comments: There should be an appealing blend of the fruit and
honey character but not necessarily an even balance. [...]

So basically, if you make a cider with honey, you can't call it a standard cider, but you don't necessarily have to call it a cyser. If the honey notes are detectable in either aroma or flavor, however, then you'd be better off just calling it a cyser.

If you needed to get the ABV up and didn't want to use honey, you could use sugar, brown sugar, or molasses.

 

[Medsen Fey]

As you can see, the determination of whether a batch is a cider or a cyser is a complex matter that requires expertise and is not something that should be left to amateurs. Fortunately there is an option. Here at the Fusel Shack we offer a testing service that will put your batch through a rigorous organoleptic analysis by our certifiable testing panel. The experts here can then definitively classify it as cider or cyser and provide you with a certification statement (suitable for framing). As a member of GotMead, this service is provided at no cost to you. You need only send in 2 bottles, but they should be aged properly so that yeasty byproducts do not interfere with the flavor profile.

We offer similar service for braggots, and for meads to classify them as sweet, semisweet, or dry. Don't let your brews score poorly due to improper classification - count on the team at the Fusel Shack!

A public service announcement brought to you by GotMead!

Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT

 

[WVMJack]

I couldnt read my last results I got back from the Shack and your suggestion that we send over a few more bottles is not going over well! WVMJ

 

[mannye]

As you can see, the determination of whether a batch is a cider or a cyser is a complex matter that requires expertise and is not something that should be left to amateurs. Fortunately there is an option. Here at the Fusel Shack we offer a testing service that will put your batch through a rigorous organoleptic analysis by our certifiable testing panel. The experts here can then definitively classify it as cider or cyser and provide you with a certification statement (suitable for framing). As a member of GotMead, this service is provided at no cost to you. You need only send in 2 bottles, but they should be aged properly so that yeasty byproducts do not interfere with the flavor profile.

We offer similar service for braggots, and for meads to classify them as sweet, semisweet, or dry. Don't let your brews score poorly due to improper classification - count on the team at the Fusel Shack!

A public service announcement brought to you by GotMead!

Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT

It's nice to see someone going out of their way to help the community by making such a selfless sacrifice.

It's inspiring actually. So much so that I'm going to volunteer to travel to the fusel shack and help out!

Hmmmmmm. "Selfless sacrifice". Is that like "very unique?"




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[mannye]

On a more serious note, it seems to me that ANY addition of honey makes a cider a cyser. Think about it this way, how much brandy is allowed in wine before it's considered fortified? I would venture to guess "any."

Others may say that it's when the honey addition comes out in the flAvor perhaps. Maybe a slight amount is acceptable and undetectable like anchovy paste in a stew. Giving only the equivalent of umami.

I tend to be the former camp. If you add enough honey to cider to raise the ABV then it's going to impart flavor. Thus, cyser.


Sent from my TARDIS at the restaurant at the end of the universe while eating Phil.