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M

MFSHEPARD

NewBee
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Apr 29, 2017
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Started 5 gal traditional on Jan 7, OG 1.099, D47 and used SNA. Environmental temperature was consistently 66-67 range. It proceeded very well and by 1/18 the SG was 1.010 At this point I spit the batch into two 2.5 gal batches, and added 4 lbs of Blackberries to one and 4 lbs elderberries to the other, (both, frozen/thawed/heated to 150 degrees for 20 minutes, pectinase added 24 hours prior to adding to must).

Within 3 days, 1/21, the elderberry batch dropped to 1.004 and remained there. On 1/24 I racked off the fruit into a carboy, I didn’t taste a lot of elderberry so I added an additional 2 cups of elderberry juice.

The blackberry dropped slowly and by 1/24 was down to 1.004, today was still there so I racked it off the fruit. Like the other one it didn’t taste enough blackberry so added 1 quart of juice,( added ¼ tsp K bicarb/pectinase to juice).

Questions

How long should I leave them alone prior to cold crashing?

The elderberry is tart but a little sweetenng will probably even some of that out. The blackberry is VERY tart (probably why was slow to ferment) and I don’t want to add a lot of sugar. Should I add potassium bicarb?

I would like both to be just off dry or barley semi-sweet, (aiming for 1.008-1.012), I will probably back sweeten both. When should I add K meta and sorbate? Back sweeten 24-48 hours after adding these?

Oaking? After cold crashing? After/before sulfites? Now?



I would like to allow them to age long enough that I can better evaluate what adjustments are needed prior to adding a lot, but since each alteration affects others, the order and timing seems important. I would think Ph would be first.
 
Hello, and welcome!
A few thoughts...
1 - I would've let the fermentation ride a couple more days just to see if it would go any further or at least got it to it's stopping point if I was thinking about fruit in secondary. I'm not sure why you added fruit late in the fermentation. I add it up front and/or after fermentation, but I suppose you can add it whenever. It will make it a bit tougher to measure final ABV because you've added sugars from the fruit.
1a - Why add the potassium bicarbonate? Was your PH like 2.5 or something?
2 - I would've stabilized and cold crashed once I thought fermentation was done --> add k-meta, and then k-sorb within 24 hours (many do it at the same time). The easiest explanation here for newbies is to cold crash, rack off the rough lees, and then stabilize with k-meta and k-sorb.
2a - If you haven't stabilized, your yeast may be feeding on the additional sugars from the fruit you added, which after stabilization, I would've let the fruit sit for at least a couple weeks to extract all it could, and then determine if more was needed.

To your questions - most of this is up to you, but this is what I'd do:
1 - If you think fermentation is done, cold crash (may take some days), rack off the lees, and stabilize.
2 - I would not add potassium bicarbonate at this time. IMO, the best way to balance tartness (which may mellow with some time), is with sweetness (a bit more blackberry juice that is sweet, or honey).
3 - I would let these sit for at least a month after stabilizing before doing anything to them. The exception would be adding oak, but it doesn't sound like you have a good idea where these batches are going yet, so you may have an idea of that at a month.
4 - You can add oak at fermentation, afterwards, during aging, whenever. The big thing is having an idea of what the oak is going to do based on it's type and toast levels. Keep in mind oak can balance out any sweetness as well, and make a sweet mead seem semi-sweet, or off-dry. Here's one article for you:
5 - Any other additives - honey, juice, acids, etc. - should be done carefully. Sneak up on it a little bit at a time until you think it's where it needs to be. There are quite a few posts on this forum, but maybe search for "intelligent acid additions".

I hope this helps. Let us know how they come out.
 
thank you. Yes this helps a great deal.
So cold crash, rack, stabilize, then wait at least one month and evaluate/adjust. When/if I back sweeten do I need to stabilize again?
don't have any experience using oak so it is kinda hard to judge how much or if I need to add it. From what I have read I think both would benefit from it. I thought about spitting off a gallon and adding oak just to experiment.
 
Always think about what you like first - or, uh, maybe your significant other if that's in play.;) Some folks don't like oak, and the amount of oak along with what it imparts (type and toast) varies by person.
Morewine (from the link I gave you) gives guidance on how much oak to use. I'd stay away from oak chips unless you're ready to rack off them soon, and they don't seem to integrate as well. Cubes, spheres, and staves all work well. You're going to have to get experience under your belt to tell what you like, how much, etc. One thing oak chips might be good for is teaching. Get some of varying types and toasts. Make a tea out of each - just a little water and some oak chips. Taste what each one is like. It's not perfect, but can give you an idea on your palate. You can also use more than one type of oak in your mead. I do that pretty much every batch.
If I were to guess on the Elderberry batch, I think Hungarian (medium or medium+) and/or French (medium or medium+). The medium+ could impart more smoky and spice notes. If you're not looking for that, then maybe go with the medium toast French. You can always get some elderberry flower and steep that for 1-3 days in the mead if you need more elderberry aroma.
I know with my blackberry vanilla mead, I've always used some American medium+ with some French medium+.
Just some thoughts.
IMO, only use k-sorb once. I do add some k-meta any time I'm back-sweetening. You may not need as much as the original stabilization if your mead is pretty clear and there's very little, if any, lees left.
EricHartman on this forum put this link together.
https://www.gotmead.com/community/ubs/mead-making-journey.1/
It's a lot to digest, but you'll benefit from it. I probably studied mead and related equipment for a month before I even decided to do it and bought anything. I still floundered a bit even then, but it's a blessing to have experienced mead makers here helping out.
 
While you didn't mention using finings to help clear your mead, keep in mind that back sweetening with honey will add haze to your mead and you may want to fine/cold crash after that point.
 
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Great information and I thank you for sharing. That link is more like a college course. I have listened to a couple of podcast, they are informative but very time consuming. The problem is that it takes so long to tell how your meads turn out. I made some a few years ago and honestly quit because none were worth the time and effort, didn't drink any until a few months ago, now that they have aged a few years I wish i had continued and made a few more. Not saying they are that good but I am enjoying them. So ..... trying it again.
 
Smaller batches can be time consuming for the amount of mead you get, but much easier to toss out if it goes bad. I started small. First batch was a JAOM just to see how it went. It was 'drinkable', but somehow the oranges I used had way too much pith, and it really came through in the flavor. I tried a few 1-2 gallon Trads with some different yeasts, and also experimented with some fruits. After a few successful batches, I felt confident enough to go with a 5 gallon batch when Squatchy did a mead-make-along. I just started my 40th ferment almost exactly 4 years later. So far, some batches have been good, but maybe not an award winner, and some have been great. I don't enter competitions because it just doesn't interest me that much. I'd like to go to one some day though. It's much more rewarding knowing that it tastes good to me and my wife (more importantly) and of course friends and family. I don't need to win something to know if it's good. I'd feel the same way if I ever started my own meadery too (currently not a goal). If folks like it, they'll buy it. If not, then I better be able to adapt or be willing to shut it down.
 
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MightyMosin said:
While you didn't mention using finings to help clear your mead, keep in mind that back sweetening with honey will add haze to your mead and you may want to fine/cold crash after that point.
Click to expand...
One additional point that I'll add related to my earlier post. While I will usually using fining agents after I back sweeten, I have a Buckwheat honey that is so unfiltered that there is a ton of pollen and other stuff in there that does not want to drop out of suspension whether I cold crash it or not.

With that honey I will use both Bentonite and Sparkolloid to cause it to all drop out of suspension because all the suspended items add unfavorable flavor to the mead and that's on top of Buckwheat being strong as it is.

I guess my point is that you will need to adjust based on your particular circumstances.
 
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