Sulphites in Cyser necessary?

[WVMJack]

Dude, go for it, no better way to learn than just jump in. Are you one of those supertasters who everything has to much taste so you have to dilute everything down? If so you would probably enjoy many of the commercial meads available as many of them taste very thin to us. WVMJ

 

[anir dendroica]

Would the malolactic fermentation be that which anir dendroica was speaking about earlier with the reduction of tartness? That is, if it finishes fermenting and it tastes a little sour still, I should let it keep doing its thing. If it finishes fermenting and the tartness / sweet / dry level is to my liking, it could benefit from halting any more malolactic fermentation with the addition of sulphites?

Lastly I have another question for you folks if you care to chime in again. Since my apples are quite tart, does this indicate that they could produce a must which is too acidic to ferment?

Malolactic fermentation is generally a wine thing. Rather than converting sugar to alcohol, malolactic bacteria convert malic acid to lactic acid, creating energy for themselves in the process. Lactic acid tastes much less sour to us. It works to soften acidity in wine because there are other acids (tartaric, citric, etc.) also present. With apples, malic acid is the main acid component and if you eliminate it you will be left with an unbalanced flavor profile. So generally you want to prevent wild malolactic fermentation of cider/cyser.

71B is unique in that it is capable of partial malolactic fermentation, converting about 20-25% of the malic acid to lactic acid. That can be a good thing with cysers, depending on how tart your apples are to start, how dry you plan to finish, and how tart you want it to taste in the end. Personally I have not yet had a cyser/cider that I deem to be too sour, though I have had many that could have used more acid. But that is just my taste.

It is always a good idea to measure pH, but I have never seen an apple must too acidic to ferment. The human taste sense is not a good measure of pH. Most people would agree that a tart apple (pH ~3.3) tastes more sour than a can of Pepsi (pH ~2.3), though the Pepsi is actually ten times more acidic.

 

[GntlKnigt1]

Have read this article multiple times, but I suspect it goes beyond just taste. You also want to kill strange yeast, maintain pH, and sulfite levels. Perhaps Anir can comment on this, as a microbiologist...
http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FS/FS-52-W.pdf

What I distill from this is that ideally, pH should be about 3.0 (I've had fermentation stick at 2.8, so it's a fine line), alcohol at 13% ABV, and sulfite at 13 mg?L (although I have NO idea how to measure or calculate that, but perhaps Anir Dendroica has a way to do it.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with Fatbloke and others that a killer yeast should be used with any fresh fruit that isn't guaranteed sterile.

You have some real pros giving you advice here. You can't go too far wrong following any of them.

 

[anir dendroica]

Looking at that document, it is not listing ideal pH and ABV. Rather it is listing the amount of sulfite required based on the pH and ABV. There are also online calculators and tables for determining sulfite addition:
http://winemakermag.com/1301-sulfite-calculator
http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/SO2.html

The pH dependence is due to sulfite chemistry; at lower pH more of the sulfite is in the active SO2 form, while at higher pH less of it is in the active form. Thus to provide the same concentration of active SO2, roughly four times more sulfite is required at pH 3.6 than at pH 3.0. The "standard" addition of 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons (50 ppm) is adequate at a pH of 3.5-3.6 or below.

The alcohol dependence is due to biology. Higher alcohol means a more stressful environment for spoilage organisms, hence less sulfite is required to prevent them from reproducing.

Finally, as advice to new meadmakers: Commercial winemakers are very careful about sulfites. For them, each lot of wine may be worth $100,000 or more, and their product needs to pass muster with refined palates that are expecting a particular flavor profile - thus any level of wild yeast flavor could render it unmarketable. It is entirely possible to make a very delicious mead without sulfites. It is also possible to leverage wild fermentation to add desirable flavors, though doing so requires some luck and experience. Mead is surprisingly resistant to spoilage, which is to say that with or without sulfites the chances that your mead will grow fuzzies and become undrinkable are quite low.

 

[WVMJack]

I thought we were talking about cyser with raw apples? My crabs have 1.2% TA, we might have to try MLF on this on purpose to drop a little bit of the acid. Some cider makers work very hard to make sure MLF works for them. Of course a trad mead hardly has any acid in it to begin with so there isnt much for MLF to work with, but a cyser is a different beast. WVMJ

 

[Chevette Girl]

I only sulphite my apples if there's going to be a long wait before I get the yeast in (ie, shredded apples sitting with pectinase overnight), you should be fine.

 

[MikeTheElder]

I always have added 1 crushed Campden tablet/gallon to my must 24hrs before pitching my yeast, just to make sure any nasties like acetobacter are killed off and to stun the native yeasties long enough for my yeast to out compete them.

I've never felt the need to add sulphite after fermentation, everything I make ends up dry as dust so I have no fear of restarted fermentation and I maintain sterility at all times during fermentation/racking/bottling so I'm not scared of any nasties getting in there

That is speaking from years of winemaking, now that I'm trying to become a Mazer and will be occasionally backsweetening, I will have to add some sorbate and meta to stabilize.

It is probably more of a precautionary measure than an absolute necessity though, but better safe than sorry.