To bubble or not to bubble? Is it worth it using an air pump to oxygenate must?

  • PATRONS: Did you know we've a chat function for you now? Look to the bottom of the screen, you can chat, set up rooms, talk to each other individually or in groups! Click 'Chat' at the right side of the chat window to open the chat up.
  • Love Gotmead and want to see it grow? Then consider supporting the site and becoming a Patron! If you're logged in, click on your username to the right of the menu to see how as little as $30/year can get you access to the patron areas and the patron Facebook group and to support Gotmead!
  • We now have a Patron-exclusive Facebook group! Patrons my join at The Gotmead Patron Group. You MUST answer the questions, providing your Patron membership, when you request to join so I can verify your Patron membership. If the questions aren't answered, the request will be turned down.

BlindMike

NewBee
Registered Member
Apr 13, 2023
22
2
3
New Jersey
It's no problem shaking my 1 gallon carboys. but I am looing towards the future of 3, 5, 6.5 gallon buckets, etc. Not gonna even try shaking those big boys. lol I have a wine whip that I used to aerate my 2 gallon JAOM, but I've heard some suggest aquarium air stones and pumps on timers.

The setup suggested to me was:
1x Stainless Steel 0.5micron air stone.
1x Aquarium air pump with adjustable flow rate 3 - 6 watts
1x inline air filter
1x backflow prevention valve
Food grade silicone tubing

Suggested use:
Aerate must prior to pitching yeast
Aerate must 1-4 times per day until 1/3 sugar break.

School and the internet have taught me that our air is about 20% O2, water averages 10ppm disolved O2, and under perfect conditions can hold 18ppm at the Earths surface. I have also heard & read that fermentation requires a minimum of 10ppm disolved O2 and ideally 15ppm.

If I had the tools to masure O2 saturation in must while fermenting, this would be an easy question to answer. Since I don't, what say you all?

Is bubbling going to make happier yeast and a better mead?
How much bubbling at room air O2 levels is enough?
How much bubbling at room air O2 levels is too much?
Are you adding O2? What methodology?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
It's no problem shaking my 1 gallon carboys. but I am looing towards the future of 3, 5, 6.5 gallon buckets, etc. Not gonna even try shaking those big boys. lol I have a wine whip that I used to aerate my 2 gallon JAOM, but I've heard some suggest aquarium air stones and pumps on timers.

The setup suggested to me was:
1x Stainless Steel 0.5micron air stone.
1x Aquarium air pump with adjustable flow rate 3 - 6 watts
1x inline air filter
1x backflow prevention valve
Food grade silicone tubing

Suggested use:
Aerate must prior to pitching yeast
Aerate must 1-4 times per day until 1/3 sugar break.

School and the internet have taught me that our air is about 20% O2, water averages 10ppm disolved O2, and under perfect conditions can hold 18ppm at the Earths surface. I have also heard & read that fermentation requires a minimum of 10ppm disolved O2 and ideally 15ppm.

If I had the tools to masure O2 saturation in must while fermenting, this would be an easy question to answer. Since I don't, what say you all?

Is bubbling going to make happier yeast and a better mead?
How much bubbling at room air O2 levels is enough?
How much bubbling at room air O2 levels is too much?
Are you adding O2? What methodology?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Your fish pump is better than nothing and can only get you to 10PPM. I would do it the first 3-4 days. Once the yeast go anaerobic, they can no longer take on O2 when the crazy fermentation activity slows down. Then thay have gone anaerobic. This usually happens in the 3-4 day period. It will make your cell membrane more able to withstand ethanol near the end of formation if you are going to make a mead that will still have excess sugar in your gravity. In other words. It Supermans the shit out of the yeast, and they can withstand a little more ethanol before they tap. Or. It also helps that you don't get stalls early on once you get close to the end of fermentation. I bought a tank for O2 and a stone (metal), and then I use pure O2 the first 3-4 days 2X a day, and with the pure O2 and stone you can get the 15PPM which you have alluded to in the above.

Honestly. Many professionals don't bother with this. And their mead is fine (seemingly so). So you would need to consider the tank and stone cost and determine whether the price is worth the gain.
I had the money and went for it. With the methods, I have taught on the podcast. Not only do I not have any issues ever. But I have won very coveted awards with meads as young as three months. I think that is contributed to all the small gains adding up. I can teach someone (and have) to make award-winning meads in very short order. But I cannot make someone learn and/or follow directions.
 
Fermentation is an anaerobic process - it doesn't need air or oxygen as it progresses.
Aeration is needed at the beginning to allow the yeast to generate enough sterols to allow maximal growth and to be tolerant of the the harsh conditions as alcohol increases. 2 saturations of the must in the first day is more than enough, and you don't need any more aeration after that. You are welcome to do all the stones, and bubblers , whisking, whipping and degassing that you like but none of it is necessary. If it makes you happy, or if it makes you feel more relaxed about your mead, then there is no harm in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darigoni
You are welcome to do all the stones, and bubblers , whisking, whipping and degassing that you like but none of it is necessary.
I have seen several use this method. I refer to it as the, "Ron Popeil, set it and forget it" method. No knocking it, after all that's how nature probably created the first mead. At some point I'll probably mix up a gallon batch and stick it in a cool place and not touch it for a month or three just to see how it goes.
 
Honestly. Many professionals don't bother with this. And their mead is fine (seemingly so). So you would need to consider the tank and stone cost and determine whether the price is worth the gain.
I had the money and went for it. With the methods, I have taught on the podcast. Not only do I not have any issues ever. But I have won very coveted awards with meads as young as three months. I think that is contributed to all the small gains adding up. I can teach someone (and have) to make award-winning meads in very short order. But I cannot make someone learn and/or follow directions.
So basically, it won't hurt and it might help. And in your case, you feel it is a part of your overall successful fermentations. As a cook I can understand this.

Something I just came across. According to Wyeast, while over-oxygenation isn't a concern, under-oxygenation is especially with higher gravities. .....at least with worts. I'll assume it is the same with musts.
 
So basically, it won't hurt and it might help. And in your case, you feel it is a part of your overall successful fermentations. As a cook I can understand this.

Something I just came across. According to Wyeast, while over-oxygenation isn't a concern, under-oxygenation is especially with higher gravities. .....at least with worts. I'll assume it is the same with musts.
Correct.

What I passed on to you was from an excellent book called Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation. By White/Zainasheiff.

The "White" named author owns White Labs. They took machines all across America, checking professional breweries to see what they were doing, and most were not aerating properly. More were under-aerating
, and the balance was over-aerating. Their book tells us to add at 18 and 24 hours. I think that it means after lag time has moved into fermentation. I don't believe lag time counts because they are not fermenting but reproducing. Once fermentation starts, so does the clock. They found that you can adequately add enough O2 for gravity, and they will consume all of the O2 in the vessel within the hour. Therefore leaving the spawn to be without O2 to maximize their cell membrane. I feel most makers under-pitch according to Scotts Lab's suggested pitch rate, which changes based on gravity. So more gravity asks for a higher cell count. So, a higher cell count asks for more O2 as well. Thus the need to add the 15PPM in most mead gravities. They state that 1092 is a very high gravity. And anything over that needs to have 15 PPM. However, many pros don't even do any O2 ads in the mead world.

The proper amount of O2 will cause a faster fermentation at the start. And decrease flavor compounds such as Diacetal and Acetaldehyde. And will cause higher fluctuation in beer. That is beside the point in most mead. As we usually build our must to tap out at a given ABV.
 
Fermentation is an anaerobic process - it doesn't need air or oxygen as it progresses.
Aeration is needed at the beginning to allow the yeast to generate enough sterols to allow maximal growth and to be tolerant of the the harsh conditions as alcohol increases. 2 saturations of the must in the first day is more than enough, and you don't need any more aeration after that. You are welcome to do all the stones, and bubblers , whisking, whipping and degassing that you like but none of it is necessary. If it makes you happy, or if it makes you feel more relaxed about your mead, then there is no harm in it.


Hi Medsen

I'm not challenging you here at all. But I am asking because I want to learn and need some help. In the book, I spoke about down below. I passed on info in the Book called Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation. In the book, I read that a sufficient O2 add would be consumed entirely in 1 hour's time. And that yeast wants and needs O2 before they go into the fermentation phase. And that was why he added that it would be good to feed a beer wart an extra dose of O2 between 12 to 18 hours so the newest spawn could get their O2 as well. And in the same section, that was why he said to wait until the 12-hour point for the first dose because it was worthless to ad O2 before the yeast had duplicated.

So it seems that he feels it necessary to feed all of the generations of newly propagated yeast their dose. As we know. Higher gravity meads take longer to move out of the lag phase. So this then would/could push back the place for the appropriate timing of doses or ask for a third dose. This was then why I thought it was good to continue to dose with O2 for a little longer based on a longer lag time.

I know all yeast strains are different. But I just felt like one could see the difference between the growth phase and what the fermentation looked like after they do indeed go anaerobic.

I know your background and know you understand these things better than I so I was hoping you could comment on this.

He also wrote in a different place that once two days have passed, then it's time to warm up the beer wort to 70F. To make it easier for the yeast to finish out the ferment. They were speaking of beer, not mead. This confuses me. I think that part of my confusion at times is when reading different publications. Some are about beer, others about wine, and even some about mead.

I'm asking about causing of flavors or aromas during fermentation.

And I suppose some of this comes from trying to read from the dark, not necessarily from the text. I learned somewhere (and I can't remember where now). I can't remember a thing now after I almost died of covid and then lived with long covid for 15 more months. At this point, I expect the leftover stuff I still contend with might very well stay with me to my death. Anyway. Can we deduct that once a beer wort moves beyond the growth phase, it should no longer make off flavors? Otherwise. Why would Mr. White say you can let your temps rise to the high seventies? Or is that a poor conclusion? By the same token. If a beer wort can take an extra dose to ensure the beer's yeast gets their O2. Can we also consider it fair to give the last of the generated yeast prodigy a dose of O2 in a batch of mead if more yeast is reproduced after the 24-hour mark? He did say that extra O2 will go towards making flavor compounds.

In a similar fashion. I came to a conclusion by this means in a different scenario. We stop feeding yeast when they are at 9% ABV with DAP and 10% with Go-ferm because they can no longer assimilate the YAN. It has also been said that we can stop cooling our must once it moves beyond the same break without issue if everything is made correctly. Can we then say that yeast does not create off flavors once they stop eating? And that's why we can turn off our temp controllers after that point. I wonder why they add food at the 1/3rd break in winemaking when this is far short of the nine and ten percent that we need to watch for in mead. Especially if they say to subtract half of the amount of food you would need to feed a mead if it is made with grape must. As that wine juice should add half of the YAN that type of mead needs. And I don't even see how they can say that when some high-proof meads ask for over half of the yan a 10 percent a red wine would ask for.

I made a test batch once with two of the exact meads in every way. Except one was kept at 62 F. and the other at room temp average of about 80 degrees. The strain was not temperature sensitive at this point. I kept each mead separate for two years as they aged. In the beginning, there was a pretty fair difference between the two in many ways. But over time. As the months moved on, the disparity between both was less and less after two years time. No one could tell the difference in a blind test of the two batches. So at that point, it seemed like a waste of time and effort even to bother running with temp control. Yea. It matters if you plan to consume them early versus after two years. But you don't save any of what we generally perceive as benefits from cold fermentation over a period of time.

This is the suck part of what we, mead makers, have to try to figure out when there is almost no written textbooks for mead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjodmaker