small batches

[beninak]

I'm trying to get back into homebrewing after taking a break for a while. It's too cold outside now to use my turkey-fryer propane setup for the normal 5 or 6 gallon batch, so I'm thinking of scaling down to either 1 or 3 gallon batches that I can boil on the kitchen stove.

Is there any special considerations to take into account when making a smaller batch of beer other than scaling down the ingredients? For example, I normally use the liquid yeast vials from White Labs - should I still use a full vial for a 1 or 3 gallon batch? If I do, I'll definitely try to recycle that yeast through multiple batches. Just want to make sure that it wont be yeast overload.

 

[akueck]

I'm trying to get back into homebrewing after taking a break for a while. It's too cold outside now to use my turkey-fryer propane setup for the normal 5 or 6 gallon batch, so I'm thinking of scaling down to either 1 or 3 gallon batches that I can boil on the kitchen stove.

Is there any special considerations to take into account when making a smaller batch of beer other than scaling down the ingredients? For example, I normally use the liquid yeast vials from White Labs - should I still use a full vial for a 1 or 3 gallon batch? If I do, I'll definitely try to recycle that yeast through multiple batches. Just want to make sure that it wont be yeast overload.

Hey, welcome back.

Assuming you're doing full boils for large and small batches, you should be ok scaling the recipe. When you are moving to or from partial boils, you have to worry about the hop extraction efficiency. Also your kettle losses are bound to be larger for the smaller batches, so make a little extra to account for that.

I like the 3 gallon batch size. 1 is the same amount of work for less product.

The vials should be ok to use for a smaller batch. I think using only one vial for 5 gallons of anything more than about 1.040 beer is technically underpitching. You'll probably overpitch a 1 gallon batch, but not by a whole lot (factor of 3 or so, eh no big deal). If you want characteristic yeast flavors, you could try to scale back the pitch, but it's kind of messy (IMO) pouring out only half of those vials.

I've taken to using dry yeast for most of my beers now. Much easier and cheaper too.

 

[Oskaar]

Hey Dude!

Welcome Back

Glad to see you back at Got Mead? I hope you and yours are well.

Oskaar

 

[beninak]

Thanks guys! I picked up some Safale US-05, Saflager S-23, and Safebrew T-58 to play around with. Its nice that they have a bit more of a shelf life than the liquid yeasts even though they arent as specialized.

I was planning on trying some German style lager like Helles and Pilsner to take advantage of the cold weather, but after doing a little research I found that those styles really cant be accurately duplicated with extract recipes, so my New Year's resolution is gonna be to upgrade to an All-grain setup!

 

[wildaho]

Welcome back Ben!

You won't be sorry when you go with all grain. The versatility it affords you is enough to justify the expense (and it's cheaper per batch too!). You will be the master of your recipes instead of trying to compensate for what is or is not in the extract.

:cheers:
Wade

 

[osluder]

You won't be sorry when you go with all grain. The versatility it affords you is enough to justify the expense (and it's cheaper per batch too!). You will be the master of your recipes instead of trying to compensate for what is or is not in the extract.

While I agree that all-grain gives you the ultimate versatility, for me it is not the material expense so much as the investment in time. All-grain is a day long affair while extract with specialty grains can be accomplished in maybe 4 hours and a mini-mash slightly longer. These times include sanitation, brewing and clean up.

I was planning on trying some German style lager like Helles and Pilsner to take advantage of the cold weather, but after doing a little research I found that those styles really cant be accurately duplicated with extract recipes, so my New Year's resolution is gonna be to upgrade to an All-grain setup!

I'm curious about your source of info that Helles and Pilsners can't be "accurately duplicated" with extract. I can't comment directly on Helles as I have not made one yet, but I have made both Bohemian and German Pilsners (including Dortmunder Export) using extract and had excellent results. I think your choice of water and yeast as well as fermentation management will have more affect on these recipes than anything else.

-- Olen

 

[Vino]

I'm curious about your source of info that Helles and Pilsners can't be "accurately duplicated" with extract. I can't comment directly on Helles as I have not made one yet, but I have made both Bohemian and German Pilsners (including Dortmunder Export) using extract and had excellent results. I think your choice of water and yeast as well as fermentation management will have more affect on these recipes than anything else.

I would agree with osluder on this...I have made several Pils from extract that were very good, although the all grain versions did seem to be much lighter in body, otherwise quite tasty...I would recommend a Marzen...cold fermenting yet slightly more body so the extract should work well...I've only brewed one Marzen, so I don't have much to compare to.

Anyway...if your only doing a small batch what have you got to loose?

I also have to admit, that as much as I love making all-grain it is an all day affair so at least half of what I brew is from extract.

 

[wildaho]

While I agree that all-grain gives you the ultimate versatility, for me it is not the material expense so much as the investment in time. All-grain is a day long affair while extract with specialty grains can be accomplished in maybe 4 hours and a mini-mash slightly longer. These times include sanitation, brewing and clean up. ...
-- Olen

My brewday with all grain is typically 5-6 hours. It's all a matter of staging, set up and organization. The extra hour or two more is well worth it to me for the control and price reduction.

I brew mostly big beers (9-12%) so the savings in fermentable cost alone is worth it. My LHBS charges $15 for six pounds of extract. It adds up quick. For the price of 18lbs, I can buy a whole 50lb bag of grain and make them as strong as I want. For real cheapness, I'll sometimes talk one of the brewpubs into letting me piggyback on their grain order.;D

I brewed a lot of extract beers before moving to all grain and still do one on occassion to show somebody how easy it is. I've made some that even BJCP judges couldn't tell from all grain. I'll stick with the all grain though, more control and better price.

Of course, mead making is even easier and the brew day is less than an hour!

:cheers:
Wade

 

[osluder]

My brewday with all grain is typically 5-6 hours. It's all a matter of staging, set up and organization.

My brew buddy and I must be enjoying the fruits of our previous labors way too much while we cook. ;D The shortest all-grain session we have been able to pull off is just under seven hours for a 10 gallon batch of high-gravity rauchbier. (We had no choice but to go all-grain because of the amount of smoked malt in the recipe: some recipes truly are impossible unless you go all-grain.) On the other hand, with a high BTU double propane burner and 10 gallon brew pots, we've managed to do four different batches (3 x 5 gallons and 1 x 10 gallons) of extract beer in the same time.

I brew mostly big beers (9-12%) ...

I love big-@ss Belgians myself. We have a session planned to make 10 gallons of our "Mission Trail Abbey Ale" quadruppel (~10% ABV) in a couple of weeks.

Is there any special considerations to take into account when making a smaller batch of beer other than scaling down the ingredients? For example, I normally use the liquid yeast vials from White Labs - should I still use a full vial for a 1 or 3 gallon batch?

To sort of bring this post back on-topic and to affirm previous posts, you shouldn't have any problems pitching a whole vial of White Labs (or even a Wyeast "smack pack") into a three gallon batch especially if it's higher-gravity. Most homebrewers tend to under-pitch anyway. Honestly not sure the effort is worth it to do only one gallon batches: that's not even a 12-pack. Once you start to factor in racking losses, you'll be lucky to get a 6-pack out of it. Akueck already mentioned the difference in hop extraction efficiency if you move from a partial- to a full-wort boil.

-- Olen

 

[akueck]

I've done several 1-gal batches, mostly mead but also a beer or two. I tend to get about 7 12oz bottles out of it (usually 7 + 1/4 to 1/2 of the 8th bottle). Sucks when you hit on a good recipe since it's gone before you know it, but they finish fast, clear fast, and are super-quick to make. 1-gal jugs all lined up and bubbling away are kind of cute too, like a brewery for munchkins. ;D

 

[beninak]

I'm curious about your source of info that Helles and Pilsners can't be "accurately duplicated" with extract. I can't comment directly on Helles as I have not made one yet, but I have made both Bohemian and German Pilsners (including Dortmunder Export) using extract and had excellent results. I think your choice of water and yeast as well as fermentation management will have more affect on these recipes than anything else.

-- Olen

Well I just seem to remember hearing that the main key to getting that distinctive light, refreshing and malty character of the Helles in particular is using the decoction mash.

also from the additional notes on using extract section at the bottom of this page: http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/extract.html

"The total portion of the base malt that you can replace with extract depends upon the beer style. A light colored beer like a Munich helles that relies on malt for the primary flavor component will not tolerate much extract. To get both the color and the flavor required for good results, you will need the vast majority of the total extract to come from a grain mash."

 

[osluder]

Well I just seem to remember hearing that the main key to getting that distinctive light, refreshing and malty character of the Helles in particular is using the decoction mash.

As I said, I can't comment on Helles as it is not a style I have ever tried to make. The big Belgian-style ales I favor have no issue at all being made from extract plus specialty grain. The dozen or so pilsners of various type I have made all came out "pretty damn good" as far as the humble palates of me, my brew buddy and generally knowledgeable others who have tasted them (usually in the setting of informal "beer exchanges").

It just strikes me there is a point of diminishing returns in which the investment (of primarily time) just does not pan out for me. The best analogy I can think of is audiophile stereo: I can easily tell the difference between a $200 stereo (grocery store beer kit with hopped extract) and a $2,000 one (extract + specialty grain). When I start to listen to the $20,000 stereo (partial mash), I might be able to hear some slightly nuanced improvements in the first few minutes of listening to certain music styles, but even those are lost after extended listening (drinking a couple beers). Then there are the $200,000 stereos (all-grain): $5,000 for a freakin' interconnect? Give me a break! ;D

I may be more motivated if I was entering a lot of competitions or trying to capture a certain style to the nth degree, but I just want to spend some quality time with my best friend and drink some really good beer that we might not be able to find down at the corner store.

Having said all that, you personally want to invest the time and effort to take your brewing up to that next level or to truly best capture certain styles and I commend you. Go for it!

-- Olen

 

[Vino]

I may be more motivated if I was entering a lot of competitions or trying to capture a certain style to the nth degre

Hey Olen,

I'd venture to say that a good portion of judges wouldn't know you used extract in most cases.

--sound of thunder from the Beer GODS--