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sweetening with barley, how?

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capoeirista13

capoeirista13

Honey Master
Registered Member
Aug 17, 2008
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Philadelphia
OK so I was told that Horsnby's cider is sweetened with barley. I have a cider now which is a bit tart and I'm trying to sweeten it without bringing up the ABV anymore, the only way I can do that without sulfiting/sorbating it with unfermentable sugars right? So what do beer makers, or anyone else for that matter, use in the way of unfermentable sugars? The only idea I have is caramelizing some honey.
 
It's my understanding that crystal malts are largely unfermentable. The higher lovibond ones are basically char and that doesn't ferment. The low ones probably have some small degree of fermentability, but not nearly 100%.

If you want to play with a mash, you can make a very unfermentable but sweet syrup if you perform the mash at high temperatures. Above 155 or so you deactivate the alpha amylase, so you end up with mostly 3,4,5+ ring sugars instead of the dimers.

I would experiment first with something like crystal 40 since it's super easy to make tea. ;D Let us know if you try it out and how it works!
 
capoeirista13 said:
OK so I was told that Horsnby's cider is sweetened with barley. I have a cider now which is a bit tart and I'm trying to sweeten it without bringing up the ABV anymore, the only way I can do that without sulfiting/sorbating it with unfermentable sugars right? So what do beer makers, or anyone else for that matter, use in the way of unfermentable sugars? The only idea I have is caramelizing some honey.
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For more "neutral" backsweetening, there was a thread on the site referencing an analysis/study showing that Splenda was unfermentable and didn't turn acidic, break down, etc. during the backsweetening process, so you might want to check that out. I've not used it, but maybe others have.

Eric
 
The problem with caramel or crystal malts is that they will also darken the cider and add flavors which may or may not be an issue for you. And as far as artificial sweeteners such as Splenda (sucralose), some people don't care for the taste even though it is much better than say Aspartame. Stevia extract may be an option as well if you go that route: I think the flavor is more palatable than even sucralose. What about maltodextrin? I know it is used primarily to add body in beers, not sure about the sweetness though. Safest bet may be just to stabilize or cold crash and repeated rack and stick with the uncaramelized honey to back sweeten. -- Olen
 
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Maltodextrin and lactose are used by brewers to add unfermentable sugars to beer. Lactose is sweeter and used in sweet or milk stouts. Malto is used to add body. However neither are malt based.

Barley malts will add fermentable sugars as well as unfermentable sugars. In general beer wort is 75% fermentable. By adding crystal malts or mashing at higher temperatures you can decrease the fermentability but getting it much below 60% fermentable will be difficult. Steeping 100% crystal malt in hot water (155F) can be used to add some malt sugars. I'm not sure how fermentable this will be but I would guess around 50% perhaps. If you were to add an amber DME (dry malt extract) to the cider is would add some sweetness but also increase the ABV unless you dilute it.

Any addition of malt based sugars to the cider will have a noticable impact on the flavor. I think malt has a much stronger flavor than does apples so you should use the malt sugars sparingly. Best results would probably come from using some DME in replace of the sugar in your original recipe.

Craig
 
I have actually experimented with Xylitol and Lactose and had fairly good results with both.

Both seemed somewhat nuetral in taste and did not impart any off-flavors normally associated with the artificial sweeteners (IMHO).

Of the two Xylitol would be my preference, since I'm not sure if the Lactose might be a problem for those who are intolerant.
 
lol, vino you hit the nail on the head, I actually am lactose intolerant, and I'd rather make something that everyone can drink, including people who are lactose-intolerant and people who have trouble with sulfites, as I've heard some people do. So just to be on the safe side I'm trying not to use them, which is why I'm trying to use unfermentable sugars. As for all your suggestions, wow, thanks a lot you guys. There is so much information here. As for the cold crashing and re-racking I'm trying to have this batch ready for the super bowl so those are kind of out of the question. I'll see what my LHBS has and I'll caramelize a small bit of honey to see what it tastes like and go from there.
 
capoeirista13 said:
I'm trying to have this batch ready for the super bowl
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Make sure you save some for after the game...you're gonna need it when my Steelers kick Philadelphia's butt...that is assuming Philadelphia makes it.

GO STEELERS!!!


picture.php
 
Eagles r gonna dominate that cardinals, and then proceed to win the super bowl, this is a celebratory drink im making right here. and when we win, the riots will reach international news-buildings will be flipped, the phillies riots were nothing
 
CBBaron said:
... getting it much below 60% fermentable will be difficult...
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I've heard of a brand of extract, I think it was called Laaglander or something like that, that is supposedly 55% fermentable. I think you could easily push below 50% if you mashed your own grain, though that takes a bit of setup and is kind of messy if you're not used to it.

The crystal malts would definitely add color and flavor, but I'm not really sure how you could use malt to sweeten a cider without impacting both (short of stabilization/force carbing which is probably what Hornsby does anyway).

Brown sugar is often used in apple-based drinks. You could try molasses. I think it's about 50% fermentable based on the "sugar" vs. "carbohydrates" nutrition information on the label. Make sure to get the unsulphured kind. You will of course add color/flavor doing this as well. I used some molasses in a kumquat mead (1 or 2 tbsp/gal) and it came out decidedly light orange, no hint of brown at all.
 
capoeirista13 said:
Eagles r gonna dominate that cardinals, and then proceed to win the super bowl, this is a celebratory drink im making right here. and when we win, the riots will reach international news-buildings will be flipped, the phillies riots were nothing
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Sorry Cap,

Well at least Pennsylvania will still be represented in the big game...Looks like I'll be in Tampa on February 1st.

Hope that cider turns out good.

Vino

BTW, How about them Penguins!
 
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Not to hijack (too much), but since the Broncos basically eliminated themselves from playoff aspirations this year, I'm just glad that I can cheer for the old "hometown" team - the Steelers.

My wife's family back in Philly aren't too thrilled, though....
 
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