newbie/learner with dumb Q?

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campden tablets are for stablizing. it can taint the flavour if overdone (makes it salty). i understand you have to heavly over do it to taint the flavour.
also need to use sorbate to stablize which i under stand is easier to over do it and taint it.
 
aw damn, so it's obviously a little trickier than just popping a tablet in. Does the campden tablets only stop 'wild' yeasts? As I gather the yeasts in mead aren't exactly 'wild'?? So confusing....???
 
Let me see if I can lessen your confusion a bit. Campden tabs are metabisulphite (either sodium or potassium - if you can tell what you're buying, potassium is better). Metabisulphite adds something called SO2 (sulphur dioxide) to your must. Sulphur dioxide, in sufficient concentration, will kill yeast cells, along with lots of other spoilage organisms. The molecular form of SO2 dissolved in the must liquid is often simply referred to as "sulphite," although that can be a misleading term. But for simplicity I'll use it interchangeably with SO2 from hereon out.

What makes things complicated, are 1) the amount of "free SO2" added to your must will depend on its pH, and also on what other chemicals are present in the must that can bind with SO2 and render it useless for sanitization, and 2) different strains of yeast are susceptible to different concentrations of SO2. In general, wild yeast strains (and many spoilage organisms) can be completely killed off by as little as 50 ppm sulphite. Campden tabs are sized such that they add about 50 ppm per tab, per gallon into a must of pH 3.5 (sort of an "average" pH for a wine must). So if you have one gallon of mead and you want to add 50 ppm sulphite to it, you pop in one crushed Campden tab. HOWEVER, some of that sulphite will be bound with other chemicals (in general), and some of it may not be free, depending on your must's pH. So, in general, it doesn't hurt to add a bit more just to be sure.

Further, commercial wine yeast strains have been bred to be more sulphite resistant than their wild cousins. Some strains are very resistant; they can tolerate as much as 325 ppm sulphite, and at those levels you can even smell and taste the influence of the chemical in your mead. So, (also in general), don't rely on sulphite additions to stop an ongoing ferment that you've started with a commercial yeast strain. It likely won't work, unless you are willing to have your mead smell like a burnt match.

Again in general, additions anywhere from 50 to 150 ppm are undetectable in the mead, unless you are particularly sensitive to the sulphite (i.e. allergic). Most people are totally unaware that sulphite is present in a mead or a wine, even up to that 150 ppm level or beyond. Whether you ever want to have that much sulphite present in your mead, is totally up to you.
 
thankyou very much wayneb - fantastic suggestions, sure does help to 'clear' it up (pardon the pun). I just seem to find so much differing information, I've learnt to google less, and just log in here instead ;)
thanks heaps!
 
Hmmm..now I really have to go check what stabilizing agent I bought. I need to kill my yeast at around 14%, but want to backsweeten it a bit without restarting the fermentation... :S
 
Hmmm..now I really have to go check what stabilizing agent I bought. I need to kill my yeast at around 14%, but want to backsweeten it a bit without restarting the fermentation... :S

Killing the yeast via stabilizing agents may not always be effective. Wayne already mentioned the potential for off flavor or aroma, but there's also a chance that a few remaining yeasties that are living could start multiplying again and finish out your fermentation.

Your safest option is probably to let it finish fermenting to completion even if that means going past 14%. Then let your mead clear itself or help clear out the yeasties with a clarifying agent, rack the clear stuff into a new vessel, adjust the alcohol content with water, add your stabilizers, and then backsweeten.
 
thankyou very much wayneb - fantastic suggestions, sure does help to 'clear' it up (pardon the pun). I just seem to find so much differing information, I've learnt to google less, and just log in here instead ;)
thanks heaps!

Very good advice. What the mentors don't know isn't worth knowing. Well...mostly. :rolleyes:
 
Killing the yeast via stabilizing agents may not always be effective. Wayne already mentioned the potential for off flavor or aroma, but there's also a chance that a few remaining yeasties that are living could start multiplying again and finish out your fermentation.

Your safest option is probably to let it finish fermenting to completion even if that means going past 14%. Then let your mead clear itself or help clear out the yeasties with a clarifying agent, rack the clear stuff into a new vessel, adjust the alcohol content with water, add your stabilizers, and then backsweeten.

Mine actually translates to something like "yeast stop". Doesn't say anything about what's in it...

The shop's pages says something like "calium sorbate and wine sulfur" and to not stop the fermentation, but to let it go dry. So...when it's completely clear, I should rack it to a clean carboy and then add the yeast stop?
kaliumsorbat og vinsvovel
 
Mine actually translates to something like "yeast stop". Doesn't say anything about what's in it...

The shop's pages says something like "calium sorbate and wine sulfur" and to not stop the fermentation, but to let it go dry. So...when it's completely clear, I should rack it to a clean carboy and then add the yeast stop?
kaliumsorbat og vinsvovel

Google translated the kaliumsorbat wikipedia page as Potassium Sorbate so in that case, yeah, I would let it clear, rack into a clean carboy and then add the "yeast stop". Potassium Sorbate basically prevents yeast from reproducing. So it won't stop an active fermentation, but using it after fermentation is complete and you've racked to a new vessel will help you to backsweeten without worrying about fermentation starting up again.

Letting the mead clear prior to racking or using a clarification agent to clear it prior to racking just helps precipitate out as much live yeast as possible. Then, when you backsweeten, you may have some live yeast feeding on the new sugar, but the numbers should be insufficient to start any noticeable fermentation.
 
Thanks for the explanation, Gray :)

Just wanted to add that in my all my years on the 'net, this must be the most helpful, tolerant and information packed board I've ever been on. My hat off to you guys who can stomach all us "noobs" ;)
 
Thanks for the explanation, Gray :)

Just wanted to add that in my all my years on the 'net, this must be the most helpful, tolerant and information packed board I've ever been on. My hat off to you guys who can stomach all us "noobs" ;)
I totally agree ;D
 
thankyou very much wayneb - fantastic suggestions, sure does help to 'clear' it up (pardon the pun). I just seem to find so much differing information, I've learnt to google less, and just log in here instead ;)
thanks heaps!

i understand the frustration. i've had the exact same thing. way to much scraps of information. some incorrect info, a lot of different ways of doing things all mixed in as one makes for very hard learning curve.

even the faq's here leave a lot to be desired.

one bit of advice i got locally was to follow a recipe. problem is there are 1000's of recipes and some are just plain bad, others have a lot of throw backs from old times.
finding a good one thats gets ok results fairly quickly is hard.

whats more important is finding how things actually work so you can adjust a recipe to suit local conditions. eg to suit what yeasts, nutrition, equipment is available locally.
 
one bit of advice i got locally was to follow a recipe. problem is there are 1000's of recipes and some are just plain bad, others have a lot of throw backs from old times.
finding a good one thats gets ok results fairly quickly is hard.

whats more important is finding how things actually work so you can adjust a recipe to suit local conditions. eg to suit what yeasts, nutrition, equipment is available locally.

And just to confirm that you do actually have the right idea, post it on gotmead before you get started and you'll get all kinds of good and useful advice on whether it needs to be modified and how.
 
And just to confirm that you do actually have the right idea, post it on gotmead before you get started and you'll get all kinds of good and useful advice on whether it needs to be modified and how.

the catch with that is we are often using ingredients that very few others use.
its the method and the ideas behind the method thats the important thing.
feedback on that is very very helpful.
however people tend to try first, ask 2nd.

i feel that we could write a beginners guide for modern mead making. combine the FAQ's and bits of info off the forum into a general procedure that would be easily adaptable to peoples situation.
 
i feel that we could write a beginners guide for modern mead making. combine the FAQ's and bits of info off the forum into a general procedure that would be easily adaptable to peoples situation.

That, in fact, is exactly how the newest revision of the NewBee Guide came to be. One of our more senior mentors, Angus, took the original NewBee Guide, re-structured it, included all the FAQs that had been gathered up to that point, inserted lots of "sage" advice from the likes of Oskaar, etc., and produced what we have today. Does it need another revision? Of course - any good guidebook is always a work in progress, because we never stop learning new and better ways to do things (and the rationale behind them). Can you step up to the challenge and try your hand at a revision (or at least an augmentation) of what we have now? Certainly! If you feel that you have what it takes (in writing skill and in meadmaking knowledge), feel free to draft some new stuff for the Guide. Send it to me via PM; we'll have the mentors review it and if it seems like a good fit for the Guide we'll then pass it on to Oskaar and Vicky for final review. Assuming they're good with it, we'll incorporate your jewels of wisdom into a newer, better Guide! ;D
 
That, in fact, is exactly how the newest revision of the NewBee Guide came to be.

I think the newbee guide is pretty current but next time I run into an inconsistency there or in the FAQ or glossary I'll have a go at fixing it.
 
i might give it a crack, tho my writing skills suck.
theres certainly a few things that need fine tuning in the guide. i shall see if i can rewrite from a different perspective while i can stil think like a newbie.