...<grumble>...
In reality, probably not, I don't expect to come up with a spare couple grand for airfare anytime soon. But it's on the bucket list at least.
honey in Croatia
- Thread starter MattHollingsworth
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...<grumble>...
In reality, probably not, I don't expect to come up with a spare couple grand for airfare anytime soon. But it's on the bucket list at least.
I was gonna ask you how a guy with the last name of Hollingsworth ended up in Croatia, but you beat me to it!
Now I have another question for you. When you were in LA, did you ever come across a guy by the name of Tony Gleeson? He's a graphic artist (and comic fanatic) friend of mine. Forgive the slight thread hijack - answer me via PM so we don't further corrupt your original thread. ;D
I was gonna ask you how a guy with the last name of Hollingsworth ended up in Croatia, but you beat me to it!
Now I have another question for you. When you were in LA, did you ever come across a guy by the name of Tony Gleeson? He's a graphic artist (and comic fanatic) friend of mine. Forgive the slight thread hijack - answer me via PM so we don't further corrupt your original thread. ;D
Naw, it's okay. It's my thread, afterall! ;-)
Anyway, no. I didn't know many comics folks in LA. I'm not from there (I'm from Ojai, near Santa Barbara, but lived in Portland for 9 years also, where I learned to brew) and while I was living there I was working in visual FX, so I wasn't around comics people there.
Many, many of the names here end in "ić", which is like "ich". So, if you see anyone with that ending, or "ich", then they're likely of Croatian origin. John Malkovich being an example. Guess the family changed the spelling when they moved to America to have it pronounced more correctly.
My Croatian friend's name ends in "ic", he said "ich" is closer, but it's supposed to be much softer than how we'd typically do it in English, closer to "ish" (but slightly harder than that too).
So that's how I've been pronouncing those last names for a while now, am I making an ass of myself or is that as correct as a non-native speaker is likely to get with a Croatian name?
So that's how I've been pronouncing those last names for a while now, am I making an ass of myself or is that as correct as a non-native speaker is likely to get with a Croatian name?
"ić" is not really like ish. It's much closer to "ich". It is softer, but not like sh. More sort of like "tj" in Croatian, with that "j" being like a "y". "č" is the harder "ch" sound, just has a different accent over top. But, the thing is, even some Croats don't pronounce the difference between the two. For the "sh" sound, Croatians have "š", same as Czech. And the regular letter "c" is like "ts", also like in Czech. It's like "tsar" or "czar" in Russian or the "ts" in "cats".
Our joke is that my local name is Matija Vortić, just using the "worth" part of my name.
Hah, I'll have to tell my Croatian buddy he's been pronouncing his name wrong! He shouldn't feel too bad though, it seems to happen to everyone after a generation goes by, I don't pronounce my last name even close to correctly (Holowaychuk and I say "hollow-way-chuck", I know the W is supposed to be a V sound, and I think the "ay" is actually supposed to be "eye" sounding... oh well...).
Hah, I'll have to tell my Croatian buddy he's been pronouncing his name wrong! He shouldn't feel too bad though, it seems to happen to everyone after a generation goes by, I don't pronounce my last name even close to correctly (Holowaychuk and I say "hollow-way-chuck", I know the W is supposed to be a V sound, and I think the "ay" is actually supposed to be "eye" sounding... oh well...).
Heh, I've been admonished for mispronouncing what is now my own last name, my German mother in-law says it slightly different from my Slovenian father in-law
(Ur-ments versis Err-ments)... It does involve the "c" pronounced "ts" though, which most people get wrong, they always pronounce it as a "k"I've seen Croatian/Yugoslavian surnames that are pronounced, "ich" spelled both "ic" and "ich", I think maybe there were some spelling changes when they immigrated. I know my maiden name (originally German) isn't its original spelling either, the original would have been Dingeldein. And no, I would not hyphenate, Dingledine-Ermenc is just too atrocious... one unspellable, unpronounceable name at a time, thanks....
And yeah, Oskaar, they really do loves them a polka in Slovenija... and at weddings... and in the living room... (my hubby's parents met at a dance hall)
When I was in Norway last year we were visiting the cultural museum in Kristiansand and happened across a group of elders playing Polka music--and singing, although since it was in Norwegian I didn't understand a word of it. Since nobody was even paying attention to them we sat down and enjoyed a few minutes of badly played (and equally badly sung) onetwothree and it was delightful!
My last name is only one syllable, but people screw it up amazingly often. I'm alway surprised, because how can you mispronounce OATES?
Easy: bates dates gates cates and the ever popular o-tez. Sheesh
Now, what was this thread about again?!
My last name is only one syllable, but people screw it up amazingly often. I'm alway surprised, because how can you mispronounce OATES?
Easy: bates dates gates cates and the ever popular o-tez. Sheesh
Now, what was this thread about again?!
No more Yugoslavia so it's just Croatian, or Slovenijen, Bosnian, etc, `nuff said. Here's a quick pronunciation guide:
c = ts like cats
č = ch like the first ch in church
ć = ch like the last ch in church, softer than the first ch which is hard
đ = dj like the j in jar with a soft d in front of it
dž = j like in jar
š = sh like in swish
ž = zh like in Zhivago or the s in measure
lj = like in million
nj = like in onion
Like my last name Bakulić would be Bah-KOO-lich phonetically. The ich ends up getting added because most folks say Back-YOU-lick since the accents generally don't end up on the letters in English, and they don't know what they mean.
Totally true!!
Cheers,
Oskaar
That guide Oskaar posted is good.
The hardest ones for us Americans are probably nj and lj. nj isn't always hard. I grew up speaking Spanish (since forgotten most of it) and it's the same as the n with the tildy in manana. BUT, in Croatian, it's sometimes on the end of a word or place name. When there's no vowel after it, it's more difficult. As in the town name "Tribunj".
And Croatian often has less vowels than we're used to but there are sort of implied vowels. Like the country Serbia is Srbija and you sort of pronounce a vowel between the S and R.
But lj is still the hardest for me. I do okay with it, but it's a bit tougher than the others, most of which have similar things in Spanish. Croats roll their rs, for instance.
Anyway, try to pronounce this one:
strpljiv
Hahaha! Appropriately enough, it means "patient". But it's still funny to me to sometimes come across word like this with almost no vowels.
The hardest ones for us Americans are probably nj and lj. nj isn't always hard. I grew up speaking Spanish (since forgotten most of it) and it's the same as the n with the tildy in manana. BUT, in Croatian, it's sometimes on the end of a word or place name. When there's no vowel after it, it's more difficult. As in the town name "Tribunj".
And Croatian often has less vowels than we're used to but there are sort of implied vowels. Like the country Serbia is Srbija and you sort of pronounce a vowel between the S and R.
But lj is still the hardest for me. I do okay with it, but it's a bit tougher than the others, most of which have similar things in Spanish. Croats roll their rs, for instance.
Anyway, try to pronounce this one:
strpljiv
Hahaha! Appropriately enough, it means "patient". But it's still funny to me to sometimes come across word like this with almost no vowels.
I am aware, but this was when I was in high school, when there WAS still a Yugoslavia and I don't know what part he was from, and having a Croatian and a Slovenian both married into the family on my mom's side, you do NOT get the two confused, so I went with the outdated rather than the blatantly incorrect...
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I am aware, but this was when I was in high school, when there WAS still a Yugoslavia and I don't know what part he was from, and having a Croatian and a Slovenian both married into the family on my mom's side, you do NOT get the two confused, so I went with the outdated rather than the blatantly incorrect...
Despite what people here may say about Croatian and Serbian and Bosnian etc all being different languages, they're all basically the same with *some* differences (Cyrillic vs Latinic alphabet, etc), with the exception of Slovenijan, which is very different. It's pretty much impossible for me to understand most Slovenijan and I do a decent job with Croatians, Serbs, etc.
I am aware, but this was when I was in high school, when there WAS still a Yugoslavia and I don't know what part he was from, and having a Croatian and a Slovenian both married into the family on my mom's side, you do NOT get the two confused, so I went with the outdated rather than the blatantly incorrect...
A lot of Americans do that. Most Croatians (1st generation diaspora) don't. The Yugoslavia you're referring to was actually a succession of three political entities during most of the 20th century which were: The Kingdom of Yugoslavia, The Democratic Federal Yugoslavia, and The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. They all had a collection of Croatia, Slovenija and Serbia at the core, and a growing number of other states as the politics dictated throughout the course of time. These states didn't band together voluntarily either so there was a history of hate and violence from the incept. There are still people that refer to the area as Yugoslavia out of ignorance (I know that you are not one of them and you understand the geography).
Mate, the languages are very similar. One can tell the difference between the languages when they are spoken by natives just as one can tell the difference between people speaking English from the USA, UK, South Africa, Australia, etc. I can pick up Bosanski, and Srpska, but like you have issues figuring out Slovenski!
Cheers,
Oskaar
Oh, I know. You can tell the difference between the regions even within Croatia as well. Strangely enough, I actually have the hardest time with Dalmatians, especially islanders. They speak SO fast and their dialect is so strong that I often cannot understand them at all. I have an easier time understanding Serbs than Dalmatian islanders.
Oskaar=Visane <--- Guilty as charged
Like my dad says - Magarac? Nema magarac, je tovar!
Here's another fun one to pronounce: Žastražišće (Zhaw-straw-zhish-chay) a town on the island of Hvar about two clicks from my buddy's place.
Figured I'd update my avatar for a while with a shot of me from our little house on Vis. In the background is the Franciscan Monastery, Hvar and Brać and Baška Voda on the coast.
What's "Visane"? Looks Italian. My wife says Žastražišće is nice and that whole part of the island is nice. I've only been to the actual town of Hvar so don't know the other parts of the island. Haven't been to Vis either, sadly. Nice pic!
As for the original topic, I think I may make some mead using Livada (meadow) honey as the first go if my supplies show up before the Acacia honey's ready. There's a local producer who has a very nice one that we ate a jar of (well, not all at once, over a month or so. heh heh.).
Višane is someone from Grad Vis on Otok Vis, Komižane is someone from Grad Komiža on Otok Vis. Even on an island that small there are two very distinct dialects. Hilarious, and definitely influenced from Roman and Greek, as well as Venetian languages.
Meadow honey should be pretty nice this time of year as well. Sounds great!
Cheers,
Oskaar
Fun thread, only what?! there's no Yugoslavia any more?!!!! When did that happen?
(yeah, I'm kidding, and I know about Czechoslovakia too.)
(yeah, I'm kidding, and I know about Czechoslovakia too.
) 
