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DAP/Fermaid SNA question

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CRaymond36 said:
DAP: 1 /gal = 52.83 N/ppm
Click to expand...
You still have to take make the final division that gets you to 55.47. That is the correct number. DAP is 21% nitrogen. If you dose at 1g/L you get 210 mg N per liter (210 ppm). If you then put that same gram in 1 gallon you get:
210 ppm N ÷ 3.785 liters = 55.48 ppm

So your first calculation was correct.




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Medsen Fey said:
DAP is 21% nitrogen.
Click to expand...

CRaymond36 said:
In the prior post, I was using the percentages as the base of the equations. 21% by weight for DAP and 13%/10% for Fermaid. Those percentages I obtained from 3rd party sources, not too reputable but still knowledgeable. When you posted the pdf from lallemand, I switched to the data there because they are the yeast manufacturer/cultivator, "horses mouth" type scenario, lol.

That screenshot you posted is the exact section that I pulled the data from, which states:

Fermaid: 25 g/hL = 25 mgN/L
DAP: 25g/hL = 50 mgN/L
Click to expand...

The screenshot quoted above of the PDF from Lallemand:


If using those percentages as the base facts, I agree, your math is sound and end up with 55.48.

But if you use the data provided by Lallemand as the base, percentages dont come into play, just raw conversions from 25g/hL, to 25g/26.41gal, then 0.946g/gal, then finally 1g/gal.

Just for the sake of argument, if you wanted to convert the quoted 25g/hL=50 mgN/L data to percentages:

Converting hL to L, you get 25g/L=5000 mgN/L
Then 25g to 1g, you get 1g/L=200 mgN/L
200 mgN/L is 200 ppm, which is 20%.

So one of our sources has a 1% margin of error, not too shabby in my opinion, lol. If 20% is the error, you'll end up with 1% more than the ppm target; and if 21% is the error, you'll end up with 1% less than the target. :)
 
Medsen Fey said:
If you look up the molecular formula for diammonium phosphate, you'll find that nitrogen makes up 21% of the weight.

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Click to expand...

Ok, I didn't think it would be necessary to post those sources, but here are a few that I was talking about.

Below, are sources from some of the chemical manufacturers themselves. DAP, aka Diamonnium phosphate and Diammonium Hydrogen Phosphate, comes in 2 forms based on purity to what I have seen. Food/Technical grade are the purest, both 99%. Agricultural grade is much lower in purity, and not what is used as fermentation supplements. So I specifically looked for sources that stated Food or Technical grade to ensure that the product was not Agricultural grade.

As you can see, depending on the manufacturer, each source has tested the contents of their product, and has extremely wide ranges of Nitrogen content. So depending on which specific manufacturer your DAP ultimately comes from, the Nitrogen content can span anywhere from 12% to over 21%.

Sources:

http://www.lookchem.com/cas-778/7783-28-0.html
Quotes(multiple): 20.8% min., 18% min., ≥ 20.8%, 16-18%, 18%, 21% min., >12%, 17% min., 20.50% min., ≥ 14.0%

http://www.phosphate-supplier.com/ammonium-phosphates/dap-food-grade-diammonium-phosphate/
Quotes: =< 20.8%

http://www.saininggroup.com/productsshow_en.aspx?id=320
Quotes: ≥ 20.8%

We brew alcohol, using yeast. Lallemand researches, tests, and manufactures yeast for alcohol brewing. Most of us dont have access to chem labs to run dozens of tests on chemicals and compounds in order to come up with their "Approximate YAN Contributions" for brewing alcohol. But if anyone does, its companies like Lallemand, and they happen to have done said testing and provided it to the public. This is why I chose to go with their data.

Stating that someone is wrong by 1% when the initial data was already guaranteed to have a margin of error from the start, is frivolous. Under the circumstances, we are both correct.

My goal was to learn more about the specifics behind yeast nutrition and health, and this whole exercise has given me a whole treasure trove of knowledge. I wouldn't have been able to do so without you pointing me in the right direction, and I thank you for it. :)
 
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CRaymond36 said:
As you can see, depending on the manufacturer, each source has tested the contents of their product, and has extremely wide ranges of Nitrogen content. So depending on which specific manufacturer your DAP ultimately comes from, the Nitrogen content can span anywhere from 12% to over 21%.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. The purity of the DAP we get definitely affects the YAN content (not something I had considered before). Oh well..., now my confidence in my numbers is shaken, but that could certainly explain why some batches I thought I fed appropriately still got stinky. I reckon I should get used to aiming a little higher to be on the safe side. Thanks for the outstanding contribution. :)
 
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