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Oxidization

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4give

4give

Honey Master
Registered Member
Jan 1, 2018
402
76
28
Montrose, CO
Hello folks! I'm trying a few different techniques as I narrow down to what works for me with all the best practices documented out there. One thing I'm worried about is oxidization in 2 primary ferment scenarios. Currently, I stir fairly good through the 1/3 break, and then less aggressively through the rest of the fermentation. One technique I'm trying to adopt in both scenarios is rousing the yeast daily (not vigorously stirring, but just getting/keeping the lees and yeast suspended) for 30 days after SG stops moving, and before I rack to secondary. I think this is what Squatchy recommended if I understood him correctly.
1 - Using a 1 gallon carboy for primary with an airlock: I have to leave more head space here due to the 'foaming' that occurs when adding nutrients and stirring. I do gently stir first before stirring in the nutrients. DV10 yeast isn't much of a worry, but K1 (and likely others) certainly can be. The 1 gallon carboy would likely only be for any Traditionals I'm trying as any other additives take up even more space.
2 - Using a 2 gallon bucket (that doesn't fully seal with the lid on) for what I estimate to be 1 full gallon once I rack to a 1 gallon carboy for secondary: Obviously I have excess head space here as well, but I also don't have it in a container that's fully airlocked like I do with the 1 gallon carboy, and it will be more exposed if I have the must in there for 6-8 weeks before racking.

My question is in either scenario, and using the yeast rousing method, will oxidation become an issue? I am trying some melomel recipes and I've read that musts with fruit are more susceptible to oxidization. From a taste perspective, I've forgotten what sherry even tastes like since it's been years since I've even used it or tasted it, so I couldn't tell you if any of my first batches are in trouble. I will use K-Meta when racking. Thanks in advance for any input.
 
Hey, it sounds like you've done a lot of good research and planning!

For scenario 1, I wouldn't worry too much about oxidation. If you want, you can leave headspace for the initial ferment when it will be most active/foamy, and then top it off with a little honey and water later to fill the head space somewhat.
When you rouse the lees here, do so gently. It doesn't take much to get them in suspension. What I like to do is just shake it around a bit with the airlock still on to help lessen any oxidation chances.

For the bucket, I wouldn't worry too much while you are fermenting, but if you have to keep it in there 6-8 weeks post ferment, I would advise not shaking or stirring it much as fermentation dies off. That way, you'll keep a bit of a CO2 blanket on your mead in the bucket that will help protect it. If you really want to be rousing the lees, I would suggest racking to a different container that's more airtight after the ferment is done.
 
I use trash cans that are 18" across the top and a lid that doesn't seal up at all when it's on. I have done this for a very long time. I agree with Dingurth. Once you get to around 1030 or so not as much gas is coming off so you start to lose the fresh CO2 helping to protect the mead. I would buy something you can move it over to that can be sealed and with a narrow neck. Lastly. If you practice good SO2 protocols your are then well protected. I personally believe too many people worry more than need be about oxygen exposure.
 
Thank you Dingurth and Squatchy!

I don't have to keep it in there that long, but I based the wait time until initial racking from listening to Squatchy's recorded GotMead cast on yeast protocols.

Squatchy, Are you saying you rack from the 18" can to another vessel (e.g. carboy) immediately after fermentation, or 1030 SG? In other words, I thought you stated you do not rack until 30 days after SG stops moving, and you gently rouse the lees/yeast during those 30 days. I thought I read another forum posting on the topic where folks were saying the initial racking should not occur until at least 3 weeks after SG stops moving. Am I just confused? LOL

I haven't been able to buy an SO2 tester yet, but I do have a PH tester, and have studied the charts for adding K-Meta. It seems the 1st 3 batches I started 2 months ago seem to have stabilized nicely, but they are still 'young'. I did not wait the full 30 days to rack those, but about 3 weeks.

Thanks Again! :)
 
So I need to clarify for you and it will make sense then.

The first time I "rack", it would be more accurate to say transfer. What I mean by this is I have been keeping the yeast in suspension. But when it's time to move from my trash cans to carboy. I take "EVERYTHING" with me. Including all the yeast biomass. So I did rack from one vessel to another. But I left nothing behind. I do this to place it in carbouys and airlock to minimize O2 exposure. Then, At this point. I then will continue to rouse the lees until the ferment is over. Once I get to that point I do one of two things. Most of the time I will keep the yeast roused and then stop the rousing and rack off the lees that drop out overnight. This is removing the "ROUGH " lees. These can and probably will become reductive over time. So I rack off of that crap. Now I have left "fine lees". These are suitable to long term age with. I continue to leave them in suspension. Some times for as long as 6-10 months depending on what strain I have in there. The longer you age with the lees the more mouth volume you will get. And at some point the yeast begin to explode and dump their guts into the must. This adds flavor and sensory changes. Some yeast brak down much sooner than others. Cy3079 is the strain that's is used the most for sur lie aging. In part becasue it breaks down first around the 4 month time frame. Most of the other ones then need another 4 months. Hope that cleans things up for you.
 
Thanks Squatchy. I think I somehow misunderstood that you were rousing the lees for 30 days after ferment, then racking. I'll have to digest this and re-work my plans a bit. Once I get the technique down that works for me and seems to yield good results, I'll take a much more scientific approach to my mead experiments in making sure I do each one exactly the same. I'll then need to figure out what I like, and do best, so I can master that while maybe adding experiments on the side. So far the 2 Traditionals I've done actually taste pretty good for being young - maybe even better than the others. These are all small batches to start as I really don't want to mess up a large batch due to inexperience, etc. I'll post a summary on this forum once they age a bit and I can judge success or failure. Hopefully that will help other new mead makers learn from what I've done. The biggest thing so far is that I thought I had my plan, and the science, figured out enough. I kept studying, and figured out I can likely do things better...
 
I am always open to new things. But right now. I am so sold on every piece of my protocol, I can't imagine what could come by and cause me to change up. I know one day we will inch the bar forward again. But for now I am making the best meads ever. And I have told everyone all about it on the podcast.
 
Hopefully I'll get there some day soon. I live on the western slope of CO, so maybe I can drop a couple tasters off one day for your feedback if you're on still on the eastern slope. :D
 
4give said:
Hopefully I'll get there some day soon. I live on the western slope of CO, so maybe I can drop a couple tasters off one day for your feedback if you're on still on the eastern slope. :D
Click to expand...

I've had a standing offer for quite a while that people could mail me a sample of their mead and I, in turn, fill out an official scorecard like what we use at competitions. With scores just like if I were judging a comp. As well as suggestions to improve your finished profile. I also look over your protocol if you send that as well. This way I can look over your science to sii if you can improve there as well.
 
Squatchy said:
I am always open to new things.
Click to expand...

to fill headspace I have used "canned" nitrogen. Bought some at the local brewer supply shop. after a racking, when I can't fill right up to the neck (and sometimes even then), I "spray" the nitrogen through it's straw (provided with can) passed the airlock (or cork or plug) with a minimum opening/gap, usually till I feel comfortable that enough air has left (via that gap, or bubbling through airlock) the volume in the headspace.

-Trenchie
 
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