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FairDaddy

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Jul 23, 2018
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Oh boy, this can go wrong in SO many ways! :cool:

A few co-workers/buddies of mine have decided to have a short brew off. A couple of us have never brewed before, ever. A couple have some minor experience. Of the 4 of us, 3 are going with a variation of mead or melomel, the other will probably do some type of cider. We've been researching the hows/whys/lingo and gathering the equipment/ingredients. Last night I took the plunge and pitched my very first yeast. I thought I'd post my experience as the brew off takes shape.

My first concern is I made the newbee mistake of ordering yeast via the interwebs, while it had a cooling pack in the package, it was pretty warm when it arrived. We have since then found a nice local brew shop I'll be purchasing from going forward. Three of us bought a starter kit, again from the internet, which had most of the needs within, we've added a few things since then to round out our gear and supplies.

FairDaddy's NewBee Brew Off: (2 week Primary - 2 Month Secondary)
Batch#001 (First Ever!) Cherry Melomel

1 Gal (spring water)
Wyeast 4184 Sweet Mead
3.5 lbs Clover Honey (Ordered from Dutch Gold)
1 cup of 100% Tart Cherry Concentrate (Primary - Brew Shop talked me out of using cherries on my very first batch)

SG: 1.100


Sanitized EVERYTHING! Twice probably!! (I'll have to add some details later when I'm by the ingredients I used for proper names/amounts.) Heated the spring water till it JUST started to boil, removed from heat. Cooled to 150F and added 3.5 lbs of clover honey and stirred till dissolved. Then added the 1 cup of 100% tart cherry concentrate (a little weaker that recommendations for 1 gal). Back in the fridge till it was cooled to approx 70F (I need a damn thermometer!).Yeast had been smacked and doing it's thing during this, I then pitched into the must with the best of hopes. Added the appropriate amounts of energizer and nutrients, gave a shake to aerate and mix. On went the bucket lid and bubbler trap. It was late and I couldn't sit to observe long, though I didn't see any action as of yet I will watch closer tonight when home over the next 24/48 hours. I have dry back up yest just in case.

I'll try to remember to update this thread as I go. Comments/Suggestions/Advice is always welcomed! Thank you, GotMead.com!

FairDaddy
 
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Do you have any nutrients? You want to be using Fermaid O or Fermiad K. Run down to the shop and, if they don't have Fermaid products, buy the smallest amount of what they do have and add the recommended amount after you see evidence that your fermentation has started. Before doing so, you'll want to vigorously stir the must (degas), so that it doesn't overflow your bucket.

You should check out a YouTube video, by the The Canadian Sasquatch, on making a "BOMM". It uses a different Wyeast strain, but the process will be similar.
 
Also. Add your food to a small cup of water and stir really well before you toss it in. This will make sure you don't have a volcano

Also. I would not have used any water at all. I would have used straight juice and honey up to 1120.

You can also expect a good chance your mead will stall with that strain. It's notorious for not getting it done.
 
darigoni: Once I'm back home I'll post the details on the nutrients and energizer, my brain no brain today.

Squatchy: Stalling was a fear of mine, but I thought I'd try something that would leave some sugar behind for the first try and see where it got me. I didn't want to have to worry about backsweetening my very first batch cause I'm the brew-newb! I do have some Pasteur Red dry yeast on hand as a backup. If it stalls to greatly, what are the thoughts on pitching a dryer strain in to finishing it off? Good, Bad, Depends?
 
ubborn misnomers about certain aspects of fermentation. That continues to hang around forever.

This is because way too many people answer questions with answers they have heard over and over, without really having ever actually experienced a particular answer first hand. At one time the world was flat for the same reason. It's a constant battle to try and educate new people with real science based info, when so many others continue to repeat what they have heard from well-meaning people, with no real experience.

So here is one place that seems to be misunderstood, so I wanted to clarify things for the new mead makes, as well as the confused.

It seems as though too many think that certain yeast strains were made to make sweet mead, while others were not. This is simply not true. Despite what some manufacturers label a certain strain. (Yes. It's true there are some strains that just so happen to make good mead. And others that are not normally considered by most, to make a good mead). But regardless of what a manufacturer calls a particular strain, they basically all work the same way.

Any strain can make a sweet mead. And any mead can go bone dry. It's not about the yeast per say. It's about a particular yeast and it's tolerance levels to ABV%.

Every strain has a limit that they can assimilate sugars into ethanol. Once they reach this level they do not die. They simply go dormant. And can no longer assimilate any more sugars because they have "tapped out" due to their ABV tolerance level. Most yeast can go beyond the listed levels because we superman the crap out of our yeast with the most current science and yeast-derived nutrients. Additions such as Go-Ferm, O2 additions, and SNA protocols and temperature control make them much more robust than they once were. With modern science, and modern additives. It's fairly common to see the yeast go beyond the listed tolerances if everything is done correctly.

So what determines a sweetness level in our concoctions? The simple answer is, we have a certain amount of residual sugars (RS) left in your finished product. So any yeast strain can be made to have RS in the final product if you have more sugars in the must than the yeast can consume before they "tap out".

So you can have a yeast that taps at 12% ABV in a must with enough sugar points in the must to create 15% ABV. Because we have more sugars than they can assimilate. This leaves RS behind. The more RS, the sweeter the finished product is. If fewer sugar points were in your must than the yeast can assimilate. Your mead will now be bone dry. So, even a high alcohol tolerant yeast can have RS if you have added more sugars than they can assimilate.

This is important to understand!

By now I'm sure you all own and use a hydrometer right? You can look on it and see any gravity mark also shows the corresponding ABV level as well. Now. Once we understand this, we can now determine how many gravity points we need to add to make any ABV we want to make. Higher ABV's take longer to smooth out, because of the heat from the ethanol in it. For this same reason, lesser alcohol meads smooth out and become drinkable sooner. Smaller ABV meads are easier to drink. You might drink 3 or 4 pours of a 12 % ABV and only one or two 18% ABV meads. I think most wines are in the 12% vicinity.

Too often. When a newbie gets started they want to max out the alcohol levels. But most people would probably find a 12% ABV more suitable. A good rule of thumb is it takes one extra month, per ABV point above 12, for a mead to lose the heat from the alcohol burn.

Part of the confusion about this entire concept is people believe you can stop an active fermentation part way through. They think through certain activities, they can halt the process of fermentation at a given ABV. This is virtually impossible. I'm not saying you can't be done. But I am saying it's pretty unlikely you can without causing some related problems that can lead to off flavors. And you will never be able to stop it at a certain place because every biomass is different. The very thing we are trying to avoid. Simply put. It's mostly bad information passed along through the ages from the expert parrots. Passing along stuff they have heard, but never tried first hand.

So here is what is most predictable, and, is most common by far. Pick and ABV you want to create and find the gravity points needed to do this on your hydrometer that you all have by now. When you make up your must. Make sure that the grand sum of all your ingredients add up to the appropriate ABV you are seeking. Now. Ferment this dry. Once it's dry, it then is pretty easy to stabilize your mead with additions of SO2 and potassium sorbate. The best way to do this is to cold crash your meads in a cold environment. The colder the better. Rack off the lees after it has sat in the cold for enough time for the yeast to drop out. Do this to move your must over to a new vessel while leaving the lees behind. Now add the sulfite/sorbate, natural chemicals to stabilize your mead. Once they have done their magic. The yeast can no longer reproduce, or ferment sugar any longer. Now you have frozen your must at the ABV you wanted. Once this is done you can add any combinations of additions to get the finished sweetness level you feel is desirable in your mead. This is called back sweetening.

I have yet been able to find someone who claims they can tell the difference. Between a back sweetened mead. And one that was left standing at the end of fermentation with residual sugars left behind. We hear these things. And there might be a very rare few who actually can. But no one has ever been able to point it out to me in a blind test. You might be able to tell during the first few weeks. But if left long enough, that things have a chance to integrate. You will be hard-pressed to know the difference.

Please be aware. Backsweetening should be done prior to fining or filtering. The added honey will add proteins. These proteins will create a haze in a clear mead.

This is very basic info I know. But I see this same concept tossed around every week on public platforms. What yeast do I use for a sweet mead? How can I have a certain amount of sugar left behind to carbonate my mead naturally and so on?

I'm not going to get into it here now. But for beginners. If you want a carbonated mead. Just force carbonate it. If you are at a stage where you need to ask how to do this naturally. You're probably not at a place that you should be messing with it anyway. It can be done. But perhaps that will come in a different article.

I have written many short articles like this. I started writing an easy to read book on mead making basics. But have since determined it wouldn't sell. So I plan to add something of this nature
 
FairDaddy said:
darigoni: Once I'm back home I'll post the details on the nutrients and energizer, my brain no brain today.

Squatchy: Stalling was a fear of mine, but I thought I'd try something that would leave some sugar behind for the first try and see where it got me. I didn't want to have to worry about backsweetening my very first batch cause I'm the brew-newb! I do have some Pasteur Red dry yeast on hand as a backup. If it stalls to greatly, what are the thoughts on pitching a dryer strain in to finishing it off? Good, Bad, Depends?
Click to expand...

Read the above. Back sweetening is really easy and dependable. I would pick an ABV you want to have. Add enough honey to get there. STabilize and then backsweeten. This way your not hoping and guessing
 
This is a great resource.

https://winemakermag.com/yeast-strains-chart

From what I read, there are some yeast's best suited for a restart of a stall. I have Red Star Premium Blanc for that.

Honestly, back-sweetening is a cinch. I prefer taking my mead down to .999 FG and back-sweetening to 1.020 or 1.015. Hydrometer is your best friend. Learn to use it. I've made only 3 batches but I'm starting to get the hang of the basic's. Use the same honey you used to make the mead.

If you're serious about mead making after this, learn to make traditional meads first. Perfect that and you'll have a great base for the rest of your projects. Find a basic traditional. Make it several times and get the routine down then you don't have anything to hide behind if there are flaws.

The podcast's are great on this site. I have a 30 minute drive to work and I listen to them when I think of it. Very useful.

Honestly, if you follow these guys' suggestions, you're going to win this mead-off.

You said you put nutrients in. What kind and how much? How often? Don't use Fermaid K if you can avoid it. Or Diammonium Phosphate (DAP). Use Fermaid O, because it's a gentler nutrient.
 
I appreciate folks taking the time to read my dribble. haha It's also good to know I must be on the right path, I had read the long post from Squatchy in another thread, and I already have a bookmark of the same yeast strains chart. One of my buddies in the brew off lurks here as well and has hunted down a lot of info for us to consume. I like learning things the hard way sometimes, thus not going traditional straight away and wanting to see what I could produce with my first batch without the plan of back sweetening. I plan to do so with future batches for sure though for more control and experimentation.

After I mixed in the honey and cherry concentrate and cooling I added a bit of potassium metabisulphite. The bottle says 1/4t for 6 gallons, I did my best to ratio such a tiny amount with my 1 gal batch and probably just shouldn't have bothered with it.

Unfortunately, Chilkat, both my additives have DAP in them. The nutrients (1 tsp) contain DAP and food grade urea, yummy. The energizer (1/2 tsp) again has DAP, Springcell, and magnesium sulphate. I added these post pitch. I have potassium sorbate to stabilize should I need to, but the Wyeast sweet mead yeast probably won't make a need for it. We shall see!

I was worried for a bit, there was no action in the bubbler by the following morning, I went to work concerned for my little beasties. The wife was home about 5-6 hours later and reported some bubbles! When I got home after work I was happy to see 1 bubble per 4 seconds, still going strong thus far.

Thank you, darigoni, Squatchy, and Chilkat for your input.

FairDaddy
 
I do have a response/update post that is awaiting Mod approval.

Since then, I popped open my bucket around the 48 hour mark, added more nutrients (into water first, thank you again Squatchy!). It foamed up nicely and calmed back down in a couple minutes. Gave it a good stir and closed back up. I am happy to report she's been bubbling away at a bubble per every 4-5 seconds for a few days now. So far, looks delicious, still yeasty smelling at this point. Can't wait to give a little taste!!

FD
 
Update:

My batch seems to be doing just fine thus far. I haven't touched it since the second nutrient add on day #3. I am at Day #9, yesterday my bubbles were down to 1 per every approx 90 seconds. As long as she keep up the bubbles I probably won't rack it off till a full two weeks. We shall see.

My other buddies aren't faring so well. One we won't count since he decided against making a mead and hasn't started yet. The first of us to start a batch didn't even get started, even after second pitch. The other mead maker got a good start going and about 4 or 5 days later the bubbles have stopped. I think I'm declaring myself the first batch winner by default. LOL
 
Buy a hydrometer. Bubbles tell you nothing useful. Don't rack on a timeframe based on days or hours/weeks. Rack when the yeast are finished fermenting and not before.

The problem with everyone's yeast not getting off is all about proper rehydration and temperature attemperation. You should visit the podcast to get that down.
 
I certainly need to listen in to the podcast, gotta make that happen! I have a hydometer, I haven't checked it since the start point however. Time to bone up on hows and whens! it's only been used once. ;D
 
FairDaddy said:
I certainly need to listen in to the podcast, gotta make that happen! I have a hydrometer, I haven't checked it since the start point, however. Time to bone up on hows and whens! It's only been used once. ;D
Click to expand...

So you should be on a feeding schedule. We used to feed at certain gravity readings. And now there is an even less complicated feeding schedule for those that want it super easy. I don't write down too many gravity readings anymore after making mead for so long. I do read them each feeding. But I used to write them down every few days for the first week or little longer. Then I would check on occasion near the end of the ferment to know where we were at. I would suggest you do the same. Along with that. Taste your mead along the way. This way you will learn more about the changes that take place personally in your mouth. Lastly, You might enjoy plotting your fermentation on an x/y graph. I did a lot of that as well when I was a newbie.

Pretty much now these days. I get a gravity, pH and yeast/honey when I start. I record food amounts and temp early on. And keep track of temps the entire way. But I have a "set and forget it" cooled stainless steel conical fermenter. SO that's not a necessity anymore to check temps. And then I check around three weeks in to see how close to finished I am. Once I'm done I record when I stabilize and pH.
 
I took a reading last eve, per Squatchy's advice, Batch 001 is sitting at .998 currently. I had said my starting gravity was 1.100 at the start, I think my newbee eyes fooled me a bit as that would be approx 13% ABV, which should have killed of off the yeast around 11% (Wyeast Sweet Mead). So I'm suspecting the starting gravity was more like 1.08, which would be about 10.8% which sounds about right. Taking readings Friday and Sunday to watch for fermentation stoppage.

Thank you, all.

FD
 
FairDaddy said:
I took a reading last eve, per Squatchy's advice, Batch 001 is sitting at .998 currently. I had said my starting gravity was 1.100 at the start, I think my newbee eyes fooled me a bit as that would be approx 13% ABV, which should have killed of off the yeast around 11% (Wyeast Sweet Mead). So I'm suspecting the starting gravity was more like 1.08, which would be about 10.8% which sounds about right. Taking readings Friday and Sunday to watch for fermentation stoppage.

Thank you, all.

FD
Click to expand...

The yeast won't quit right at the quoted thresh hold if it's taken care of and had SNA's. It can go farther by a few points.

I've had a batch that blew my nose up because it was so hot. I guessed it was closer to the 20-22% range rather than 18%.
 
Chilkat said:
The yeast won't quit right at the quoted thresh hold if it's taken care of and had SNA's. It can go farther by a few points.

I've had a batch that blew my nose up because it was so hot. I guessed it was closer to the 20-22% range rather than 18%.
Click to expand...
Racking can help slow or stop fermentation early. Removes the majority of the yeast cake, and the rest of them can't do much damage past that unless given more oxygen and nutrients. Pick a point a few gravity lines ahead of where you'd like it to stop, and rack, leaving as much precipitated yeast behind as possible. Then if you really want to stop it, cold crash it to near freezing, and rack it again. Should do the trick and not involve any chemicals.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Chilkat said:
The yeast won't quit right at the quoted thresh hold if it's taken care of and had SNA's. It can go farther by a few points.

I've had a batch that blew my nose up because it was so hot. I guessed it was closer to the 20-22% range rather than 18%.
Click to expand...

It may well have been just a lot of fusell alcohols. Even 40% bourbon doesn't blow up up your nose.
 
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