Advice on recipe

[WildPhil]

Ingredients

4.5 gallon water
16.5lbs honey
6tsp bee pollen
3tsp yeast energiser
5oz raisins
1 packet EC1118

Method
Day1

Heat up half gallon water, melt 5.5lbs honey. Let cool. Pour into 5 gallon primary. Add rest of water. Rehydrate yeast as per instructions on packet. Pitch yeast at suitable temp. Aerate with whisk and add yeast energiser, raisins and 2tsp bee pollen. Put on lid with airlock.

Day 3

Soften 5.5lbs honey by submerging jars in hot water, add to must with 2tsp bee pollen. Whisk like a madman. Replace kid.

Day 5

Repeat as above. Take gravity reading.

Let ferment until airlock shows no sign of action. Take gravity readings every other day for two weeks to be really sure. Rack into secondary and backsweeten. Bulk age for X amount of time. Bottle in flip top bottles.

Literally brand new at this sort of caper. Any and all advice welcome. If it helps, I'm using the bee pollen and raisins as yeast nutrient.
Ta

 

[Squatchy]

Thats an unusual proces.

So a few things here,,,,, Make sure when you add the yeast slurry that it's temperature is within 10 degrees of the must temp. I don't have time to find out what the YAN value is of bee pollen or raisins right now but I would be concerned your not feeding you yeast enough food. You could use way more (1-2 lbs) of raisins/ or dates for that matter,, and still not get a raisin flavor in the finished mead. Make sure to break the skin some how so they can get past the skins. Maybe a meat hammer, or food processor. I wouldn't feed them anything until you see prof. In other words wait till lag phase is over. I also would not use the lid for the first week. Yeast need access to oxygen. Place a thin towel over top of bucket to keep dust and flies and ferrets out. The ferret piece is a joke. A while back a guys ferret went swimming in a bucket of must. You would also do we to put a few packets of bread yeast in a tiny bit of water, mix and then nuc in the microwave, let cool. Add 2 packs of that along with you food every other day.


I would strongly suggest using a different, more mellow/less ABV tolorance level for this. WHat made you choose this yeast. You will have a very hot, dry alcoholish drink with not a lot of flavor and it will take a very long time to age out smooth enough. Can you control temps? You don't need temp control on that particular yeast. But if you can control temps there are better (in my opinion) yeast to use for a trad.

Why did you pick this yeast and what are you looking to make? Why did you pick this method? I think you could do way better. Especially if you new at this. I would be concerned that you are looking at something you might regret making at the end of the day.

 

[WildPhil]

Controlling temps is near impossible. When fall hits room temp will be around 70-70F.
I want to make something that I can age for about 4 years, in time for my 40th and the Father in laws 60th.
I chose the method after a night on bourbon! I thought adding the honey gradually would prevent a hyperactive ferment.
Thanks for your advice this far. Always open to more too!!

 

[Squatchy]

So you can make anything and age it for 4 years. The better the start the better at 4 years. Tell me what your looking for and I'll help you get there.

 

[WildPhil]

Something that isn't too sweet, ideally bone dry or as near as dammit, yet still shows the quality of the honey, not sure if these two ideals are mutually exclusive. A traditional show mead. High alcohol, say 16-18%. Good mouthfeel. And something that can sit at between 70-90F and age for 4years.

 

[curgoth]

Some references on using bee pollen as nutrient:

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/24078-Pollen-as-yeast-nutrient

http://www.academicwino.com/2011/10/enhancing-sweet-nectar-effect-of-pollen.html/

 

[WildPhil]

Thanks curgoth. That second article was very informative. I reckon I'll up my pollen to 160g per gallon along with 2lbs of raisins.

 

[bmwr75]

First, I would not use EC-1118 yeast. It is a very aggressive fermenter and many people say it blows aromatics out the airlock. 71B is the go to yeast for many home mead makers and commercial mead makers.

Second, I'd lower the honey to water ratio if you use another yeast and want it to ferment dry. 1 quart of honey per gallon of water will get you an OG around 1.090.

Third, I'd add all the honey up front, not heat it at all, but rather stir it vigorously to dissolve it in the water.

Fourth, I'd get some Fermaid O or Fermaid K and follow the TOSNA or TiOSNA staggered nutrient protocol.

 

[WildPhil]

Understood, 71b it is.
I've read somewhere that the more honey I add the better the mouthfeel, especially with a yeast that fires through honey like ec1118. Am I understanding this correctly or am I off the mark.
The reason I was gonna go with bee pollen, this might sound ridiculous, is so I can use all aspects of a bees hard work (honey, pollen, comb and wax) in the finished product. Obviously I'm not gonna put beeswax in the mix, I'm planning on covering the top of the bottle with it.

 

[Squatchy]

Yes that is true, in part, about mouthfeel. You can also choose different yeast that will add more polysacharides to the finished product . This will in turn give a fuller mouthfeel. You can do other things as well. You can boil and add bananas (include keeping the boiled banana water. You can add raisins dates, or figs. You can add adjuncts from the Scotts lab catalog. Oak can help if you know what you are doing.

71-b does a great job for many things. In my opinion there are better choices for a traditional/showmead.

 

[WildPhil]

Thanks for those tips on mouthfeel Squatchy. As for oaking the mead, could I toast some oaks branches I have from the garden? Maybe between 3-5oz in secondary, taste every week or so? In your opinion which yeast am I better off using in a show mead?

 

[Stasis]

Ec-1118 in this particular case is not that bad. There still are better yeasts though. Some aromatics will be blown out but as a mead ages those aromatics return. Also, having a higher abv mead means more aromatics per bottle. Ec-1118 is also a neutral ester mead, which means that the yeast will not contribute much flavors of its own. This means that when you drink this traditional you will be drinking something which is a result of the honey and just that, which is something I personally enjoy when drinking a traditional. Ec-1118 handles higher temps better than most yeasts so while it is not ideal for mead it might make up for it a bit with this positive. While Ec-1118 is a 'harsher' yeast, it is also a good champagne yeast which I *think* means it does well wth some sur lie aging (check on that, I'm not sure) and has proven tasty with wines (champagnes) which undergo longer than usual aging. Having said that, there probably are better options. I have tried Ec-1118 with prickly pear wines because well the temps are insane during summer and I tried many high temp tolerance yeasts. While Ec-1118 did not produce much fusels the flavor profile was rather lacking and I ended blending it with K1v which produced a wine which was actually too fruity.

Bee pollen was one of my favorite mead addition habits. I ran out and haven't used it in a while but recommend using it. However, I did read that there is a risk when adding too much pollen. I think 160g per gallon might be too much. I would quote from different threads to try to convince you, but honestly reading up on them yourself could be better(the first thread contains a link to another thread in one of medsen's posts). Keep in mind that some posts are referring to adding pollen as the only source of nutrient. You are adding extra nutrients from other sources so don't use those full amounts, but rather amounts which give the best aromatics and taste. I would also not try to convince you to add less because I personally have never used pollen in such quantities so while I think it's bad, I'm ultimately not sure

 

[HeidrunsGift]

Some aromatics will be blown out but as a mead ages those aromatics return.

I was wondering about this, and as well about how a mead tends to taste more sweet as it ages. I think that perhaps the sweetness and aromatic qualities don't change, but rather when the higher alcohols break down into less potent compounds, their overpowering off-flavors cease to mask other qualities --such as sweetness, aromas, and other honey characteristics--thereby giving the mead a more apparent sweetness, aroma, etc.

I used to think that most fusels and higher alcohols were created at the end of a fermentation, when everything is going against the yeast and they are the most stressed. According to the Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation, most fusels are actually produced up front. I found this odd, because I don't start tasting paint-thinner fusel qualities till near the end of my ferementations. I realized that what was probably happening was a bit of the opposite of what I mentioned in the first paragraph: the fusels are there, but during the beginning of fermentation the overpowering sweetness masks them. Once the mead hits a certain dryness level, the sugar no longer masks the higher alcohol flavors.

Im not sure if my assumptions are correct, but thought it was an intersesting fusel topic in regard to fermentation and aging, which certainly could be applicable when using EC1118.

 

[Squatchy]

I believe you are correct. In Chris Whites book he states that fussels are mostly made in the growth phase. I mean, I think if you were to totally disregard any attempts to do what we know as common sense in fermentation management we would find that they can be made throughout the entire time but I don't think that is the point here.

I don't have any way to prove this but it has been my observation. I have found, for me, if I run one batch dry and then stabilize and back sweeten. And then take the same must and add enough sugar that the yeast tap out at the same gravity. So one went dry and then was sweetened and one never went dry but ended up the same sweet. The one that never went dry has a better honey profile than the other. At least early on. I believe (mostly) at some point far enough down the road it becomes the same.

Buy ya. If you want to really know if your process is working run a 16-18% mead bone dry and age it. That will tell you in short order if your protocol has flaws in it or not. Jim and I and a few other judges will be testing 20 some meads we made like this. We made them all with the same must but each with a different yeast. We ran them all dry and aged them. Nothing can hide in that. Oskaarr taught us that. Make a traditional if you want to learn how to make mead. Nothing could ever be truer.

 

[WildPhil]

And that's what I want! A traditional that is as true to the name as possible, where there is nowhere to hide, only the technique, honey and yeasts used can speak for themselves, no hiding with fruit or spices or herbs or whatever else. I'm a chef by trade and am more than aware that there is nothing more harder to master than simplicity. Thanks to everyone for their tips and words of infinite wisdom. Appreciate y'all!!!

 

[Squatchy]

And that's what I want! A traditional that is as true to the name as possible, where there is nowhere to hide, only the technique, honey and yeasts used can speak for themselves, no hiding with fruit or spices or herbs or whatever else. I'm a chef by trade and am more than aware that there is nothing more harder to master than simplicity. Thanks to everyone for their tips and words of infinite wisdom. Appreciate y'all!!!

So do you have the ability to control temps? Do you want a semi-sweet/sweet or are you looking for a dry? Do you have much experience? What kind of honey do you want to use. A blend of darker honeys will give the yeast a little better chance as it has a small amount of nutrients. What size batch do you intend to create?

Would you rather make something easier and just make a nice clean traditional?

 

[WildPhil]

The honeys I use are relatively dark, local one from New Orleans City and a Cajun one from Denham Springs, Louisiana. I'd want to do a 2gal batch to start off with. Only experience I have is in wild ferments, been 'playing' for about 3 months so far. Looking for something on the drier end of the scale, some slight residual sweetness is ok. As for temp control, I'm at the mercy of my apartment which is between 75-80F. I think I'd like to make a nice clean trad, as close to idiot proof as poss!!

 

[Squatchy]

The honeys I use are relatively dark, local one from New Orleans City and a Cajun one from Denham Springs, Louisiana. I'd want to do a 2gal batch to start off with. Only experience I have is in wild ferments, been 'playing' for about 3 months so far. Looking for something on the drier end of the scale, some slight residual sweetness is ok. As for temp control, I'm at the mercy of my apartment which is between 75-80F. I think I'd like to make a nice clean trad, as close to idiot proof as poss!!

I think making a trad and feeding it is better to start out with. I'll help you get started later. Off to work for me. Can you buy some Fermaid-K

Lastly did you still want this one for the "age four years" or would this be a "drinker" for now. 4 years is so far away that I wouldn't feel the need to hurry up to get that going on. Would you want to make a few first to help you get a better feel for what you want to make for the long age batch?

 

[WildPhil]

I'll speak to the LHBS, see if they can get some in for me. I think it would be more beneficial to my aged mead if I were to put a few batches under my belt first. What yeast should I get? I've been doing some research and am now thinking D47.

 

[zpeckler]

As for oaking the mead, could I toast some oaks branches I have from the garden?

Don't do this.

There's no way the average person can toast oak at home to the same levels of consistency that a commercial producer can. There are just way, way, way too many ways this could go wrong and ruin your mead. Plus, the commercial oak products are so cheap it's just not worth the risk to save a few bucks.

I'd recommend getting a reputable brand of oak cubes. Cubes, not chips. The chips are all different sizes and the oak flavors extract extremely rapidly and aggressively. The cubes are a relatively uniform size and extract slower, more evenly, and with a much better flavor. Stavin, the most common brand of oak, recommends 2oz of cubes per 5 gallons for new barrel extraction rates. Taste the mead every week starting at about a month and remove the cubes once you get to the desired levels.