American Mead Makers Association

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I can understand the Braggot issue, yes something is needed to be done about this.

But the other ones are just philosophy's question, no such a big thing. Here we have the same Harmonic Classification System and for me is bettert to be considered "honey wine" than "hidromiel". We have a saying: the one who snuggles up to good tree, good shade shelters him (her).

To me it isn't just a mead crusade, it is also a business that I'm trying to run. Wine is a big good tree and I´m trying to snuggle up to it, I hope this strategy will be enought succesfully to feed me when I'm 64.

Saludos.
 
I think the issue is that it probably does impact sales. A lot of people who don't know mead well but want to try it (or try it again if they've had it before, but still, people who don't make the stuff) will probably miss it if it's not called "mead", they might think it's something else, or might just not even look at it closely unless the word "mead" jumps out at them.

I agree snuggling up to the wine tree makes sense, but still the bottles should be allowed to say mead on them to attract the people who've heard of it in a movie but have no idea that mead is honey wine for example (up here most people that've heard of mead have heard of it from movies/books/etc).
 
I can understand the Braggot issue, yes something is needed to be done about this.

But the other ones are just philosophy's question, no such a big thing. Here we have the same Harmonic Classification System and for me is bettert to be considered "honey wine" than "hidromiel". We have a saying: the one who snuggles up to good tree, good shade shelters him (her).

To me it isn't just a mead crusade, it is also a business that I'm trying to run. Wine is a big good tree and I´m trying to snuggle up to it, I hope this strategy will be enought succesfully to feed me when I'm 64.

Saludos.

I can't understand the braggot issue either. I am sure it was the result of some industry lobbying group back in the twenty's when they were looking at repealing Prohibition. The Good Idea Fairy was in rare form back in those days.

There was no mead industry back then so no one to fight for proper recognition. Now that the industry is starting to emerge it has fallen on our shoulders to fix that. The AMMA is our best chance of doing just that.

Edit: I am with you on the strategy to be able to live off this business at 64. I retire from the military in 4 years, 3 months and 17 days, not that I am counting. Most guys have to go looking for another job at that point. Last thing I want is to work for someone else for another 20-30 years. I'd rather be the Captain of my own dingy than 1st Mate on the QEII.
 
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Before you go too much farther down this path, let me suggest that you search for additional information on two other, now defunct, organizations. The International Mead Association (which ran the International Mead Festival, among other things, for a few years) and a precursor, the American Mead Association. Medsen brings up a very salient point in his post, and at least in my opinion it is one factor that led to the demise of those two earlier associations. Bottom line - you need to develop a clear and unambiguous answer to the question, "What's in it for me?" whenever you begin to form a professional association of any kind, or it will tend to founder. Unless you're ready to market the concept the same way that you'd sell a new piece of fermentation equipment to an existing meadery, with a clear demonstration of how it could increase their profitability, they'll likely politely decline to participate. They have their hands full keeping their businesses going as it is, and that will tend to be their principal (if not their exclusive) focus.
 
My 2 cents:

Currently I am only a hobbyist. The idea of the AMMA doesn't provide me with any benefits in the short term. Under current PA laws I can brew pretty much anything I want up to 250 gallons per year (minus distilling), which far exceeds my means. Long term I could see it having benefits of creating a larger mead "culture" in the US, which could create more home brewers, and thus more data points which can be used to find best practices for fermentation, bottling, aging, oaking, micro oxygenation, etc. Also it could be a source of lab research that, again long term, could provide data points for best practices. And an organization like this could change laws that would make it easier to start a commercial meadery without being forced into the category of a winery or brewery.

From a business stand point it makes a lot of sense to have a national organization for commercial mead makers. I have bought several commercial meads but I had to search pretty hard to find them and most didn't even have "Mead" on the label. With my limited research and experience, I bet that it is really hard to market a product that you can't even name properly (i.e. imagine marketing a cell phone without being able to call it a phone). Laws need to be changed and mead needs to be distinguished as its own category legally for it to really take off and prosper as a nationally known product and market. How can you create and sustain a market for your product if you can't even label your product correctly?

Innovation has proven time and time again, across many different markets, to be successful. Under current brewery, winery and distillery laws it seems almost impossible to innovate alcohol production beyond the current standards. California becoming a reputable wine producer (1983?) and beer's recent rise in home brewing/craft brewing have been the most significant changes.

A national association, with actual mead brewers support and financial support sounds much more capable than one meadery in this state or that state at creating a separate category for this type of fermentation. Mead makers may not agree on all fermentation practices but I think we can all agree that mead is not wine and not beer and not liquor. Mead is a world of its own and has to be recognized as such to prosper commercially and in the home brewing world.

GotMead.com has been an invaluable source in my learning process but external sites, articles and research papers have been the majority of my learning. Most posts come from new mead makers and the really informed posts come from a small minority of members. How much more could this site benefit from 20% more people that are as dedicated to this craft? How much more could we learn if 20% more people made this their die hard hobby?
 
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While having a lawyer on retainer to lobby TTB for change it is not necessary. I have successfully lobbied in my own state for changes in our laws so I know that the biggest part of making it happen is just showing up...

I would argue there's a HUGE difference between local/state level government and Federal level. You want to lobby federally you NEED a lawyer. Google news articles for Lt. Col Dominic Baragona. He was my uncle, and my Aunt continues lobbying at the federal level for a number of things.

Compare this to my dad managing to stop WalMart from putting in a store right next to a residential area at an overcrowded intersection.

I understand how to lobby both, and I can tell you without a doubt, if you go federal, get a good lawyer with lots of connections in both political circles and pertinent federal agencies. Be ready to spend a lot of time. Be ready to spend lots of money traveling to D.C.

Not so sure, from the Rio Grande to the south, with no ofense, you're known as Greengos

I was going to correct this, then I realized you would know better. I killed the joke for myself :P

mi espanola no es muy buena
puedo especie de que hablar
 
I was going to correct this, then I realized you would know better. I killed the joke for myself :P

mi espanola no es muy buena
puedo especie de que hablar

Actually, your instinct was right, I just wrote in that way because of the word Gringo origin. You all know that we call you Gringos. Well this word didn't exist 200 years ago. But when Texas became part of of the US started a war between the US and Mexico, and mexicans shouted:

Green Go Home and a little bit later in that same war just Green Go

Why green? Because the uniform that the US troops wore was green. And that's the origin of the word "Gringo - Green Go". Right now we use gringo as a kindly reference of US citizens.

It's no the same with the word "Yankee" ... oh yes ... it isn't a kindly reference.

Saludos,
 
I would argue there's a HUGE difference between local/state level government and Federal level.

You are probably right about that. It actually took me some time to learn the "politics" at the state level since the way they think isn't like NORMAL people. I am sure it is magnified a hundred fold at the federal level.

Wayne also had a very good point about having a clear and unambiguous mission. As a matter of fact I do, but I didn't want this to be MY association where everyone has to play by my rules. My intent is for this to be a collaborative effort to develop an association that would bring together the best ideas of everyone in the industry.

So how about some ideas for a Mission Statement? I'll start.

The mission of the Association is fourfold; to improve regulation that promotes the mead industry, to educate consumers about mead, to conduct research to improve the craft and to promote mead in general.
 
also its not just desricptions of diffrent meads, my friend who started a meadery recently in michigan had issue with the brand name of his mead, the ingredients that go in it ( you cant advertise that you use a specific type of grape in other than standard wines i.e. you cant put on yhour label anywhere that you use merlot grapes in your pyment) i feel most of what the TTB does is an overstep of their regulatory powers. they always quote that regulation of " false or misleading information" as thier excuse same way the feds use the commerce clause to justify everything they do. i have never heard that you are not allowed to put anywhere on your product the ingredients that are accually in it. and the small buisness guys cant hire the team of lawyers to fight off said asshatery like the big corporations can. as far as changing the rules there is a process to ask the TTB to l;ook at the regulations to see if there is a way to make it work and if not then start the process of changing it. also get wiht your local congressman and woman and senaters to fire off some letters to the TTB and explain all this regulation is hurting small buisness.
 
I got the impression that here in Alberta anyways the government just realized how small of a deal mead was and were just in a good mood or something, gave it it's own category, own set of production and taxation rules... fantastic. If our whole country could follow suite it'd be an excellent start. (But I noticed that it doesn't get it's own category for home production, that's just split into Cider, Beer, Wine. Which is fine since we're technically allowed to make endless amounts of each every year ;D )

Lobbying federally is a frightening concept to me though in all honesty, your country even more so than mine. Not that it can't be done, but still, not fun. A group like this seems absolutely necessary, it's like DragonSlayer said though, will there be the membership to get it rolling?
 
Before you go too much farther down this path, let me suggest that you search for additional information on two other, now defunct, organizations. The International Mead Association (which ran the International Mead Festival, among other things, for a few years) and a precursor, the American Mead Association. Medsen brings up a very salient point in his post, and at least in my opinion it is one factor that led to the demise of those two earlier associations. Bottom line - you need to develop a clear and unambiguous answer to the question, "What's in it for me?" whenever you begin to form a professional association of any kind, or it will tend to founder. Unless you're ready to market the concept the same way that you'd sell a new piece of fermentation equipment to an existing meadery, with a clear demonstration of how it could increase their profitability, they'll likely politely decline to participate. They have their hands full keeping their businesses going as it is, and that will tend to be their principal (if not their exclusive) focus.

I second that one. The first version of the American Mead Association was founded by Pamela Spence, and was the most successful of all the versions. Pamela started small, kept it small, had excellent contacts and supporters, and the newsletter she published was well received, and now well remembered by those of us who were subscribers.

It was a labor of love, and got to be too much for Pamela -- she passed the reins of the Association on to Susanne Price. Susanne did well, however, the organization began to go under once she partnered with Julian Strekel. Susanne perished in a tragic motor vehicle accident, and not long afterwards a number of legal problems surfaced. I don't know all the details, the honey supply company they ran was stiffing customers from what I heard, and there were other problems. Julian and the other board members quietly left town and were not heard from again.

Keith Wanless and Andy LaMorte attempted to revive the AMA but found there were too many legal problems. At the time, they couldn't even use the name.

The International Mead Association was very ambitious, but lost a lot of steam eventually, likely because the people who were involved were all volunteering their time, and didn't have enough time to give.

A common problem I saw, in talking with many of the people involved, as well as participating in some of the efforts, was starting out with plans that were too large, too ambitious, given the starting resources for getting the organization going. It's not reasonable, for example, to have a start up organization with a level for commercial folk, charge a fee to join, when you haven't gotten the organization itself up and running.

Just my humble opinion, I've often thought that the reason Pamela Spence ran the most successful version of a mead organization was that she started small, could maintain consistency on the basis of the resources she had to work with, and she filled a need.

Here's a link to Dick Dunn's comments on the old AMA, originally posted on the venerable Mead Lover's Digest:

http://lists.ansteorra.org/pipermail/bvc-ansteorra.org/1998-February/000042.html

I wish I could remember the source of where I saw this -- an identification of key factors needed for a successful grassroots organization. One, a publication; two, a national meeting; three, a viable mission statement that meets a need.

Generally speaking, startup organizations deficient in any of these areas tend to go under.

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I personally am interested in an organization that will help promote mead and attempt to loosen some of the regulations around labeling and what can be used in a mead. In the next year or so I will have my winery license and plan on producing almost as many meads as I do wines. At this time I agree with most things posted so far on this thread but can't think of anything to add. If you need any help in venture, let me know. I think Dan is probably right in that you don't want to try to take too big of a leap at first. Keep it small. While typing this I thought maybe you should contact some wine associations since mead is still lumped in with wine and see if they would be willing to work with you to get something like this going, or if they will add mead to their radar. I personally think they should be promoting mead just as much since it is under the same federal/state license as wine.
 
One, a publication; two, a national meeting; three, a viable mission statement that meets a need.
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Great comments, Dan. And some good insights by everyone. I had suggested an annual meeting, preferably in conjunction with the Mazer Cup and I have also offered a Mission Statement a few comments back. About a year ago I started putting together a magazine that would have been on the scale of Winemaker, but focusing on country wines and meads. I have already been thinking about pairing it down to be more of a newsletter. That just about covers those issues.

Look for some new stuff on the website. I am putting a better history together based on the background Dan provided here. Here's the link: http://www.webbergroup.com/meadmakersassn.htm
 
...The first version of the American Mead Association was founded by Pamela Spence, and was the most successful of all the versions. Pamela started small, kept it small, had excellent contacts and supporters, and the newsletter she published was well received, and now well remembered by those of us who were subscribers.

It was a labor of love...

Here's a link to Dick Dunn's comments on the old AMA, originally posted on the venerable Mead Lover's Digest:

http://lists.ansteorra.org/pipermail/bvc-ansteorra.org/1998-February/000042.html
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Anybody here know what's become of Pamela Spence? She's my hero...love the alchemy inherent in her inspiring book...
 
As a hobbyist, I scratch my head and ask, "how does it help me?" and I don't see a clear answer.

^^ This is exactly my feeling. It is also my feeling toward the AHA (American Homebrewer's Association), which do include mead makers too...

The AHA offers a subscription to Zymurgy with membership, but even with that, I do not see the benefit of joining. When I read about brewing, I mostly read books. I am not interested in a magazine packed full of clone recipes, the local buzz in the brewing world, and show-downs between brewing philosophies...

I enjoy brewing, learning about brewing, finding my own style and art within brewing, but I do not understand the benefit of being able to say, "Hey - I belong to an organization that likes brewing."

On a commercial scale, I understand it - especially when it comes to lobbying for legislation changes.
 
^^ This is exactly my feeling. It is also my feeling toward the AHA (American Homebrewer's Association), which do include mead makers too...

The AHA offers a subscription to Zymurgy with membership, but even with that, I do not see the benefit of joining. When I read about brewing, I mostly read books. I am not interested in a magazine packed full of clone recipes, the local buzz in the brewing world, and show-downs between brewing philosophies...

I enjoy brewing, learning about brewing, finding my own style and art within brewing, but I do not understand the benefit of being able to say, "Hey - I belong to an organization that likes brewing."

On a commercial scale, I understand it - especially when it comes to lobbying for legislation changes.

Being part of an association (not necessarily a professional one) allows you to connect with people you might not otherwise have had the opportunity to, and to learn and better the art/science cooperatively. There are exchanges of ideas, much as with our awesome community here, but simply an alternative outlet.
 
Being part of an association (not necessarily a professional one) allows you to connect with people you might not otherwise have had the opportunity to, and to learn and better the art/science cooperatively. There are exchanges of ideas, much as with our awesome community here, but simply an alternative outlet.

I agree - but there are soooo many existing outlets that it is hard for me to think what another one will do to drastically improve the available help for hobby homebrewers.
 
I agree - but there are soooo many existing outlets that it is hard for me to think what another one will do to drastically improve the available help for hobby homebrewers.

What would you suggest that would make it worth your while? What if the Association sponsored clinics where big name brewers put on classes that any card holder could attend? How about reduced admission fees to mead events for any card holder? How about discounts for purchasing from member meaderies?

These are all things I would like to work toward down the road, but first we have to get on the road.
 
Anybody here know what's become of Pamela Spence? She's my hero...love the alchemy inherent in her inspiring book...

Vickie might know. I was able to track Pamela down a few years back when I was working with Vickie on making the material from the newsletters and journals of the old AMA available online. Pamela was kind enough to give Vickie permission to use the material on GotMead.com. She might still be in contact with Pamela.

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What would you suggest that would make it worth your while? What if the Association sponsored clinics where big name brewers put on classes that any card holder could attend? How about reduced admission fees to mead events for any card holder? How about discounts for purchasing from member meaderies?

These are all things I would like to work toward down the road, but first we have to get on the road.

I think you're targeting to high, I think you should focus on pros, that's the easy way.

Enthusiasts already have GotMead, here they can start and obtain needed help, they can make brew groups and some how they can share their mead. In my opinion, GotMead fits enthusiasts needs and a lot of the pros too. Those who don't pay $25 here won't pay in other site, and those who pay here don't need another site.

But pros? That's a different world, with them youre idea could prosper. I have my needs, but I'm pretty sure that my needs are very different from my gringos colleagues.

To start a guild¿? association usually has more to do with a vision than a mission, the 1st thing to do, if you think that there's a need of that kind of association, is to find those who share your vision, if there aren't it could means that maybe you are seeing something that others don't, which means that you'll have to sell your vision, that you'll have to explain to the potential members where are they today and where they could be as member of the association in 5 or 10 years.

If I was you I would start with an open poll:

Arrange these issues from the most important to your meadery (forget about mead makers, meaderies is the word because you're going to talk about mead industry issues) to the least, explain:

  • Mead Making Techniques
  • Engineering
  • Working Capital Financing
  • Accauntability
  • Maketing & Merchandising
  • Technological

Maybe there are other topics, I don't know, these are the topics that keep my mind busy.

After data processing you'll know where the shoe bites.

Saudos