Another Apple Cyser Question

[CWarmouth]

Hi Folks, Newbie here. First post but have been learning from y'all for a long time. I've been making mead with a couple friends for about 5 years now off and on. Started out with JOAM and experimented with variations of that for a couple years. Then did a couple melomels. About 2 months ago I started a batch of "Apple Pie Cyser" using the recipe at the end of this post, except cut in half. I just racked it last night and snuck a taste. I have two issues perplexing me. #1 it is not clearing at all. I just read another post with the same problem, so I can probably apply those responses. #2 I taste NO apple flavor whatsoever. It tastes good enough, but all I taste is honey. It just tastes like a straight mead. Even after back sweetening after racking with apple juice concentrate - nothing. Not even an apple note, although it at least now smells a little appley. Speaking of back sweetening, it is also much sweeter than I expected. I thought the 71B-1118 would use up more sugar than it did. Is there any way now for me to bring out the apple flavoring and dry it a bit? Could I re-pitch another dryer yeast at this point?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ingredients:
3 – gallons apple juice (pasteurized, no preservative other than Vitamin C-ascorbic acid)
2-1/2 – pounds honey (Either all clover, or 2# clover and 1/2# buckwheat)
2 – pounds dark brown sugar
1 – Tablespoon McCormick Apple Pie Spice
3 – cinnamon sticks
2 – cans apple juice concentrate
1 – 5 gram package Lalvin 71B-1122 Wine Yeast (EC-1118 for a dryer taste)
Directions:
Put the first half of the juice in your primary fermentation vessel:
Activate your yeast unless you’re using pitchable yeast (like from Wyeast).
Start 1 quart of juice warming on the stove. Stir in the spices and add the cinnamon sticks. Let it simmer but do not boil!
Whilst the juice is warming and simmering, aerate the juice in your jugs/carboy/pail.
Once the juice reaches simmering temperature, take it off the heat and stir in the honey and sugar. Once it is dissolved, add to the juice in your primary vessel.
Mix the sugar/spice mix into the juice well.
Add the activated yeast (pitch).
Don’t forget to get the cinnamon sticks into the mix!
At this point, you’re ready to go. Install the fermentation locks on the vessels, and put everything a fairly cool place where the temperature doesn’t vary much.
My kitchen stays about 68 degrees at all times unless we have the oven going; this is a good temperature range for this particular yeast.
The primary fermentation should take 2 to 3 weeks. Generally I’ll wait until the bubbling in the fermentation lock is at less than 1 bubble per minute.
Time to rack or bottle:
Pour the two cans of apple juice concentrate into your secondary container.
Dissolve the remaining 1/2 pound of honey in 2 cups of warm water, and then stir into the apple juice concentrate
Siphon the cyser from the primary into the secondary, leaving the sediment behind.
Prime the cyser with the the honey-water-concentrate mix, then bottle.
This will be nicely drinkable in another 2-3 weeks. At about 6 months, it rocks!
Once bottled, let set for another 1-2 weeks, and the cyser is ready to drink.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi CWarmouth - and welcome. I think that there is a line or two missing from your recipe. After the line "Time to rack or bottle" you added more juice concentrate and honey. Why would the yeast not treat this added source of sugar as more for the yeast to ferment. Indeed, I can only presume that this is the idea because you go on to refer to "priming" with this mix but priming does not usually require such a large amount of fermentable sugar. You are adding - what? close to a pound of fermentables to 3 gallons of cider? I normally prime my meads and ciders (and beers ) with about 0.75 oz of sugar per gallon, not the 5+ oz I think you are adding. But you then refer to back -sweetening... A) you cannot both prime AND back sweeten (unless you are force carbonating or... (gulp) pasteurizing and B) you can only "back sweeten" if you somehow eliminate the yeast (through filtration or through stabilization) and that is the line that seems to be missing. There is no mention of stabilization or sterile filtration But perhaps I missed something.

Be that as it may, I think you may find that the apple flavors will come through again in a few months. Sounds like you used a commercially manufactured apple juice designed as a soft (non alcoholic) drink. Often such juice does not have the tannins, the acidity or the complex apple flavors that apples made for hard cider have so once you remove all the sugar what you are left with is a fairly bland drink. Also, brown sugar tends to be acceptable in coffee (if you like your coffee sweet), but more often than not "brown sugar" is white sugar soaked in molasses and the molasses used tend to be the last runnings from the sugar refining process - a pretty tasteless product quite different from true turbinado sugar... Of course, if you like the flavor that brown sugar imparts to apple juice then ignore my point.
I guess my last point is that any recipe that advises you to heat the fruit juice raises all kinds of flags in my mind. Cooking apple juice - a juice loaded with pectins - will help set the pectins (think jam or jelly) so this will likely be a cloudy drink and that may be OK given the fact that you are carbonating it but cooked apples taste quite different from raw apples.
Of course, the proof of any pudding is always in the eating but your cyser is still so new that it is too "green" to drink for pleasure. Despite all my caveats about the recipe it may turn out to be quite delicious but that may take the 4-6 months suggested by the author of the recipe.

 

[CWarmouth]

Thank you for the welcome and the reply. Genuinely appreciated. In spite of the fact of the number of years that I said I have been making mead, my experience and knowledge is still very, very limited so y'all go gently on me. Like I said, the first couple years was JAOM. I apologize for getting the vocabulary of back-sweetening and priming mixed up.

Let me explain clearly what I have done. I did follow the first part of the recipe and instructions exactly (except for cutting it in half). I used 100% apple juice, no additives. Fermentation started within a couple of hours and and all of that went great. It sat in the carboy for about 8 weeks (until last night) when I racked it and sampled it. Like you, I thought that the amount of honey the recipe required to add was way out of the park. I DO like the taste of molasses (love it actually) so I added about 3 tablespoons of that to the mix. Since I could not taste any apple I added 1 can of 100% apple juice concentrate. Now it is sitting in my cabinet aging. A lot of lees have dropped today. What would happen if I re-pitched with a drier yeast? Would fermentation start again with the remaining sugar?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[CWarmouth]

Thank you for the welcome and reply, Bernard. It is truly appreciated! I would like to say that in spite of me previously saying that I have made mead for 5 years, I am still very much a newbie. Doing anything once a year for five years doesn't lend to expertise, so I appreciate your patience. I realize that my mead vocabulary is not what it should be so pardon my mistake with the back-sweetening and priming references.

Here is exactly what I did:

The recipe is one I found online on another website and I copied and pasted it here. I followed the first part of it exactly except for cutting it in half. I used 100% apple juice with no additives. Everything went well in terms of fermentation and I have let it sit for 8 weeks. Like you, I thought that the amount of honey called for after fermentation was excessive. Especially considering how sweet and honey-tasting it already was. I actually do like molasses (love it actually) so I added about three teaspoons instead of honey when I racked it last night. I also added a full can of 100% apple juice concentrate. It is now back in my cabinet aging in the carboy. A lot of lees have dropped again today. Can I re-pitch a dryer yeast to start fermentation again to consume some of the leftover sugar and maybe bring out the apple taste?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[dingurth]

Looks like bernard covered that well, but I'd also add that store juice is not ideal. If you do stick with store juice, get the cloudy stuff. My recommendation would be to use cider, preferably from a local farmer/farmer's market. I made that switch and the change was crazy good.