Makes perfect sense. Absolutely logical. Now all you need are a few stainless steel conical fermenters to match the brewkettles, then you could just pump the must where you needed it. That's even easier than moving buckets or carboys. Let's see, a dozen 5-gallon conical fermenters, a pump, plenty of teflon-lined stainless steel hose... you'd be just like the big boys then! 8) You can just print this list out and hand it to Santa in a couple months.Oskaar said:The stainless steel brewing vessels I own are for brewing and the lids do not seal.
I also want my mead to ferment in smaller lots so they are easier to move, adjust, test for pH, check gravity etc.
If I want to "tweak" my meads (add honey, fruit, spices, other stuff) I can do so more effectively in smaller lots which in my experience lends to better quality control and consistency.
It's much easier wrangle the 5, 7.5 or 8 gallon plastic buckets than it is to move a 20 gallon brewkettle. My brewkettles also sit on top of 250,000 btu natural gas burners. I wouldn't want to try and move 135 pounds of liquid around when it's time to go from primary to secondary, or to take them off the burners.
From the plastic fermenters I go to carboys now for secondary, and then I either keg or bottle. Mostly keg. it's easier than bottling, it goes into my refrigerator and stays cool, and it lasts a whole lot longer than a bottle does. ;D
Bottom line is the right tool for the right job man. The twenty gallon stainless steel brew vessels I own are not designed for fermenting, and it would be a waste to use them for that.
Derf is absolutely right when he said that you need a sanitary environment for your primary, especially when it comes to being able to seal your juice up.
Hope that helps,
Oskaar
Barnyard braggot
- Thread starter WikdWaze
- Start date
-
Love Gotmead and want to see it grow? Then consider supporting the site and becoming a Patron! If you're logged in, click on your username to the right of the menu to see how as little as $30/year can get you access to the patron areas and the patron Facebook group and to support Gotmead!
-
We now have a Patron-exclusive Facebook group! Patrons my join at The Gotmead Patron Group. You MUST answer the questions, providing your Patron membership, when you request to join so I can verify your Patron membership. If the questions aren't answered, the request will be turned down.
Normally I do a fifteen gallon batch (one vessel) I'm going to rack a 45 gallon batch of Orange Blossom Sweet Show Mead this week, and my maxium in one brewing would be sixty gallons using all three of my vessels.
I have access to a couple of larger vessels, but haven't really wanted to go there because I'd have to bump up my fermenters, secondary and aging vessel capacity.
Since I pasturize and use a counterflow chiller, I could whip out about four batches (240 gallons) in a not too long day if I was ever feeling really ambitious.
Oskaar
I have access to a couple of larger vessels, but haven't really wanted to go there because I'd have to bump up my fermenters, secondary and aging vessel capacity.
Since I pasturize and use a counterflow chiller, I could whip out about four batches (240 gallons) in a not too long day if I was ever feeling really ambitious.
Oskaar
A counter flow chiller has on smaller diameter pipe within a larger one. It's set up so you can run your hot wort or must through the inner pipe in one direction and run cold water through the outer pipe in the oposite direction. Thus the name counter flow. It's a much more efficient heat exchanger than an imersion chiller, but it's harder to clean.
I had a sneaking suspicion it was something like that, given the name. Figured it was better to ask than assume I already knew. Thanks for the info.Derf said:
A quick update on the recipe. Firstly, I've decided after further research, prompted by several of you, to switch to White Labs WLP720 yeast. It should finish a bit sweeter and with lower alcohol content than the EC-1118, making a more drinkable mead. Secondly, recent financial setbacks are going to delay the start by another couple weeks. C'est la vie.
I don't know if it's legal to update a recipe that hasn't been made yet, but here goes ;D
This is for a 1-gallon batch;
3# buckwheat honey
1# Northwestern Weizen malt extract (unhopped)
1# flaked rye
1# oatmeal
White Labs WLP720 yeast
Boil 1/2 gallon of water to sterilize it. Put rye and oatmeal in grain bag and steep at 160 degrees for 30 minutes. Remove and drain the grain, let the tea/wort cool to about 80, add the malt extract and honey. Pour the must into the primary, pitch the starter, top off with boiled water. I didn't add nutrients to the list because the ingredients should provide plenty of sustenance for the yeast. I also decided not to boil the extract, contrary to advice I received in another post. If the only purpose of boiling the extract is to prevent protein haze, I'm not concerned. This concoction is going to be strictly for my pleasure, not a show judges, and I don't mind a cloudy drink.
This is for a 1-gallon batch;
3# buckwheat honey
1# Northwestern Weizen malt extract (unhopped)
1# flaked rye
1# oatmeal
White Labs WLP720 yeast
Boil 1/2 gallon of water to sterilize it. Put rye and oatmeal in grain bag and steep at 160 degrees for 30 minutes. Remove and drain the grain, let the tea/wort cool to about 80, add the malt extract and honey. Pour the must into the primary, pitch the starter, top off with boiled water. I didn't add nutrients to the list because the ingredients should provide plenty of sustenance for the yeast. I also decided not to boil the extract, contrary to advice I received in another post. If the only purpose of boiling the extract is to prevent protein haze, I'm not concerned. This concoction is going to be strictly for my pleasure, not a show judges, and I don't mind a cloudy drink.
I am curious why you choose that particular yeast. It is quite particular about its temperature range.(70.0 °F - 75.0 °F) and has an attenuation of 75%.
With the amount of honey and the malt in your recipe it might be a rather extremely sweet mead and being unhopped my guess is it will need acid added to balance the sweetness in the end. What are your thoughts?
Joe
With the amount of honey and the malt in your recipe it might be a rather extremely sweet mead and being unhopped my guess is it will need acid added to balance the sweetness in the end. What are your thoughts?
Joe
I chose the yeast precisely because it would leave a fair amount of residual sweetness. I'm counting on the rye to provide a spicy/bitter note to counter any excessive sweetness. As you mentioned, if it comes out too sweet to be potable I can add acid. I was also thinking that the sweetness would help cover the alcohol since I plan to let the yeast run out to it's 14-15% ABV limit. I'm after a sweet mead, so it may not be too much for me. Would you recommend any particular acid for this recipe, if it needs it at the finish?Jmattioli said:
You can't go wrong with citric acid. Its the least harsh of the 3 most used. It also is a good preservative and acts as an antioxidant among other things.WikdWaze said:
Joe
Lemon juice is just fine to use for citric acid. 1 tablespoon of bottled lemon juice from the store is approximately 1/4 t of Citric acid from your brew shop. Of course, lemon juice is more than citric acid and contains absorbic acid and lemon oil and limonene plus other stuff like proteins, carbohydrates and sugars. The difference that I notice is that lemon juice will ferment and imparts an off-flavors until it mellows out. ( like an overipe lemon or orange) Citric acid just imparts the tartness so I prefer it.WikdWaze said:
Joe
I ran this recipe through the equations which JamesP was kind enough to post under "The Process of Making It" forum. I assumed the malt extract to be 75% fermentable since it's not nearly as pure a sugar as honey, does this sound reasonable? Going with that assumption I used 3.75 for the amount of honey, 3 for the honey and 0.75 for the one pound of malt extract. It ended up with an SG of 1.169, a good ways from the 1.200 suggested on the other board. This would allow for a whopping 23% ABV if I could get it dry. With the 15% ABV tolerance of the WLP720 yeast that leaves about 8% residual sweetness. That doesn't sound excessive to me. I feel better having some numbers to back up my hunches, even if the numbers are somewhat questionable ;D
Hey, Joe. Got that new diploma ready? I'm only one post away from 200 as I edit this ;D
8)
Hey, Joe. Got that new diploma ready? I'm only one post away from 200 as I edit this ;D
8)i apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere but, traditionally braggots are carbonated (not that braggot is really a traditional drink). do you plan on carbonating this recipe? and if so how do you plan on doing so if you are going to run the yeast to the point of their alcohol tolerance?
Just wondering
JMV
Just wondering
JMV
Let's use your numbers, and assume that a 1.169 OG is correct. If you get 8% residual sweetness, that means your FG is roughly 1.059. That is sickeningly sweet. Remember, anything above 1.020 is considered a dessert mead. I have a raspberry melomel that I accidentally oversweetened to 1.025. I have to mix it with carbonated water for it to be palatable. Straight, it tastes more like cough syrup than mead.
I have a very pleasant uncarbonated braggot too. They most certainly do not need to be carbonated to be good. Though in hindsight I am kicking myself for not carbonating half the batch...
I have a very pleasant uncarbonated braggot too. They most certainly do not need to be carbonated to be good. Though in hindsight I am kicking myself for not carbonating half the batch...
Hey Scott,
Let's not forget that there are plenty of us out there who like the sweet stuff. ;D Especially us cigar smokers. A really sweet dessert mead is a wonderful counterpoint to a good, earthy, oily, leathery, cedary cuban cigar. It really brings out the other flavors like the chocolate and spice in a well aged cuban!
Cheers,
Oskaar
Let's not forget that there are plenty of us out there who like the sweet stuff. ;D Especially us cigar smokers. A really sweet dessert mead is a wonderful counterpoint to a good, earthy, oily, leathery, cedary cuban cigar. It really brings out the other flavors like the chocolate and spice in a well aged cuban!
Cheers,
Oskaar
Oh I agree, I prefer things on the sweet side too. But 
I think with a FG of 1.059, you might as well just drink the honey straight. Remember, 1.080 is not an unreasonable starting gravity for a dry mead.
The very first thing I did when I started making mead was to find out what different FGs tasted like. The results are certainly not what I expected. Your FG doesn't have to be much above 1 for it to be sweet, and it is surprisingly easy to go from pleasantly sweet to gaggingly sweet. I would recommend that anyone try meads of varying FGs before making assumptions about what a certain FG is going to taste like.
I think with a FG of 1.059, you might as well just drink the honey straight. Remember, 1.080 is not an unreasonable starting gravity for a dry mead.The very first thing I did when I started making mead was to find out what different FGs tasted like. The results are certainly not what I expected. Your FG doesn't have to be much above 1 for it to be sweet, and it is surprisingly easy to go from pleasantly sweet to gaggingly sweet. I would recommend that anyone try meads of varying FGs before making assumptions about what a certain FG is going to taste like.
I think gravity readings are fine and they help you dial into the range you like your meads to be in, but, I generally go by mouth feel.
I've made some meads that are ended right at 1.04+ and others above that as well as below that were just fine sweetwise, but had enough other influences to keep it from being cloying. I think it's also important that there are other flavors to help balance the finish and overall feel. I know that's high on the sweet range, but as I said mouthfeel and overall impression is important.
For example, our family makes a drink called Prosek (Pronounced proSHECK) that we've never pulled a gravity reading from because hydrometers were not part of the process back in the old country. They are loudly sweet, but they change as they cross the palate and the finish is smooth and clean without being over the top on the sweet side. I think it really depends on what other influences are in the mix.
Honestly it is Prosek that I am trying to model a lot of my mead characteristics after because it is so very different than most other drinks, and it is big and boldy sweet up front. But the range it exhibits on the palate is simply amazing. It's like you're traveling through a series of rapids in a raft and experiencing the different classes of rapids from a class 1 through a class 5 as it works it's way through your mouth. My uncle makes the best and there is no measurement involved. It's scary how precise he is, but at the same time, he just knows from the look and feel if it is right or not. I hope to get that good some day!
Cheers,
Oskaar
I've made some meads that are ended right at 1.04+ and others above that as well as below that were just fine sweetwise, but had enough other influences to keep it from being cloying. I think it's also important that there are other flavors to help balance the finish and overall feel. I know that's high on the sweet range, but as I said mouthfeel and overall impression is important.
For example, our family makes a drink called Prosek (Pronounced proSHECK) that we've never pulled a gravity reading from because hydrometers were not part of the process back in the old country. They are loudly sweet, but they change as they cross the palate and the finish is smooth and clean without being over the top on the sweet side. I think it really depends on what other influences are in the mix.
Honestly it is Prosek that I am trying to model a lot of my mead characteristics after because it is so very different than most other drinks, and it is big and boldy sweet up front. But the range it exhibits on the palate is simply amazing. It's like you're traveling through a series of rapids in a raft and experiencing the different classes of rapids from a class 1 through a class 5 as it works it's way through your mouth. My uncle makes the best and there is no measurement involved. It's scary how precise he is, but at the same time, he just knows from the look and feel if it is right or not. I hope to get that good some day!
Cheers,
Oskaar
Hmm... Interesting If your calculations are correct and it finishes at 8%, it will definitely be very very sweet. If you make alot of it at that sweetness, maybe only you and Oskaar will be able to drink it. But that could be good. You won't have to worry about all the neighbors coming over asking for seconds.
Everybodys tastes is different in meads and the only thing I can say is you should make it how you THINK you will like it. When its done you will know for sure. But I think it would be safe to say from experience that the majority of mead drinkers that have posted here and on MLD show a preference for their sweet meads at or below 1.040 and I think you have exceeded that figure by a significant amount. Thus you may find it not necessarily drinkable for all ocassions by too many other people.
But --- to each his own. Only you know what you are looking for and I eagerly await your first taste and critique.
Joe
P.S. Send me your address so I can send you a professional Diploma worthy of your significant efforts in breaking the 200 barrier without making your first official solo mead.
Everybodys tastes is different in meads and the only thing I can say is you should make it how you THINK you will like it. When its done you will know for sure. But I think it would be safe to say from experience that the majority of mead drinkers that have posted here and on MLD show a preference for their sweet meads at or below 1.040 and I think you have exceeded that figure by a significant amount. Thus you may find it not necessarily drinkable for all ocassions by too many other people.
But --- to each his own. Only you know what you are looking for and I eagerly await your first taste and critique.
Joe
P.S. Send me your address so I can send you a professional Diploma worthy of your significant efforts in breaking the 200 barrier without making your first official solo mead.
Here, here (with the traditional "pomp and circumstance" resonating in the background!
Don't get me wrong, I don't aspire to brew everything I make to that high level of sweetness because I know not everyone likes it. Sooner or later one even likes a break from the sweet stuff, hence the medium sweet and dry styles I like to take a shot at making.
However, I do prefer them on the sweet to dessert sweet style most of the time.
OK, is it me, or is this thread in need of a final rest and we move on to a new subject. I think we started out on barnyard braggot??
Oskaar
Don't get me wrong, I don't aspire to brew everything I make to that high level of sweetness because I know not everyone likes it. Sooner or later one even likes a break from the sweet stuff, hence the medium sweet and dry styles I like to take a shot at making.
However, I do prefer them on the sweet to dessert sweet style most of the time.
OK, is it me, or is this thread in need of a final rest and we move on to a new subject. I think we started out on barnyard braggot??
Oskaar
Heh, I don't know how this thread got to 3 pages. I really didn't mean to resurect it by posting the modifications, but I didn't see the sense in starting a whole new thread to update the changes I made in the recipe. I apologize, Oskaar. Be forwarned, it will come up again once I put everything in the primary, then once more when I rack to secondary, and then a third time when I bottle it.Oskaar said:
There's no doubt, it may turn out far too sweet for general consumption, if so it'd make a dandy topping for a sundae. I put the wheat malt and the rye in to provide something to counter the sweetness and I hope that will do the trick. If it were a straight mead I'm almost certain it would be too sweet, the plan is that the other flavors will save the day. One thing I've definitely learned, as Joe mentioned above, what's sweet to one may not be to another. I read a post in which the guy claimed Chaucers was far too sweet and viscous for his pleasure, I found Chaucers to be almost devoid of sweetness and honey essence. So even if somebody had made this exact recipe before I couldn't necessarily rely on their judgement of it. I've noticed the same thing reading the reviews on "beeradvocate.com", a dozen guys will taste the same beer and give 13 different opinions on it. It'd be nice if the numbers told the whole story.
I would, but I'm afraid you'd send Ninjas to steal my keyboard so I couldn't post anymore ;D
