Boiling test - idea for a group brew?

[monsterbronc]

truthfully, Im not concerned with FG, if it comes out different oh well, I actually expect that, Im more concerned with
a: what am I loosing/gaining by boiling?
b: overall end product, taste, aroma, mouthfeel. what way ends with a better drink in the end.

I have been told one of the major concerns is to kill the wild yeasts in the honey already.
?! why? yeast is yeast, makes alcohol, I am under the impression that when it comes to microorganizms they survive by exess in numbers, so whatever you pich wout quickly overpower any wild yeasts. I've also read that wild yeasts arent as tolerant to alcohol levels, so they die off on their own as the commercial yeast happily lives on.

that and ive been warned about bee parts and wax, but they seem to float to the top when I dissolve the honey in warm water anyway. just scoop it off as if your boiling, and you get the same effect.

Im about to do a second bach of blackberry ginger melomel, its awesome, this go round though im useing more honey, and no boil. we will see how different it is in comparison, but wont be scientific.

But, I do want to do a small batch of green chile mead. I could do a gallon boiled, and a gallon not. match the OG, pitch exact yeasts at exact temps, keep side by side, basically the only difference will be that in one, the whole must was boiled, and the other I will only boil the chilles, to steep, and keep other microbes from the chilles from altering the results.

might be a few weeks though, Im kinda busy, and its freezing in my house. the ice age has set in here in the midwest, and so far its making my ales take way longer to do their thing. and I need an empty carboy or two before I can start.

 

[akueck]

truthfully, Im not concerned with FG, if it comes out different oh well, I actually expect that, Im more concerned with
a: what am I loosing/gaining by boiling?
b: overall end product, taste, aroma, mouthfeel. what way ends with a better drink in the end.

The FG can affect those things (taste, aroma, mouthfeel) so ideally you'd have both batches come in close to the same. A few gravity points one way or the other should be indistinguishable, but you'd probably notice the difference between a 1.005 and 1.015 FG mead. Assuming you start both at the same OG, use the same yeast, and treat them the same (nutrients, aeration, temperature, etc), then you should expect reasonably close FGs.

You can find the nitty gritty details elsewhere (Dan McFeely has certainly written a fair amount about it), but the wild yeasts in honey are not much concern for meadmaking.

Definitely try a no-boil batch to compare to your previous ones. No need to be "scientific", after all we're just looking for your impressions as to the differences. You'll have to forgive the rest of us for geeking out a little.

 

[slowbie]

You can find the nitty gritty details elsewhere (Dan McFeely has certainly written a fair amount about it), but the wild yeasts in honey are not much concern for meadmaking.

Slightly off topic, but is there anything mead related that Dan McFeely hasn't written a fair amount about? It seems like every time I can't find a complete answer to one of my questions on these forums, a quick google search will find me a few pages of Dan's writings on some other site. It's incredible.

If you're reading this Dan, thanks a lot for answering more of my questions than you know.

 

[monsterbronc]

You'll have to forgive the rest of us for geeking out a little.

Forgive you? I thought Mead was synonymous with D&D and Star Trek. ;D

 

[akueck]

I saw a Star Trek episode once. Don't remember there being mead, but mostly I was confused the whole time....there was a hologram doctor? Huh?

 

[Smarrikåka]

I never saw mead in any science fiction, but I think it'd good to see it there. Would make it seem more like a future-kind-of-thing.

 

[monsterbronc]

oops, thats not quite what I meant,

what I meant was, that (with my friends anyway) people that make, and/or enjoy mead, also tend to enjoy Roll playing games, computers/computer games, sci-fi, and/or fantasy. and they are all red flags indicating our geekish-ness. though not necicarily a hard fast rule, and you don't have to be into all the categories to fall into geekdom.

I admit, at midnight, I was there for the first showing of "Return of the King" (no I didn't dress up though, But I have made my own Chainmail shirt since then)

 

[icedmetal]

I think my wife and I may be in position to add more data to this thread soon. We've got 40lbs of Orange Blossom honey coming, and I think we may need to boil one batch and not the other since the recipe calls for a boil and we'd like to remake it into a no-boil. Doing a side-by-side will be awesome anyway since the boiled version was fantastic last time. Personally I'm expecting the unboiled will be better, but hey, here's to finding out for sure in the name of science!

-SIRES

 

[Medsen Fey]

We've got 40lbs of Orange Blossom honey coming, and I think we may need to boil one batch and not the other..
Doing a side-by-side will be awesome...
...here's to finding out for sure in the name of science!

Who knew science could be so much fun?? (Not my teachers)

Yes, please do put up a brewlog because we need more data points. I plan to do an orange blossom comparison whenever I get my gallon jugs free.

 

[akueck]

I need to have a tasting of my two batches. NorCal folks have a good weekend to visit Oakland?

 

[wayneb]

If you're willing to bottle up a small amount of each and ship them my way, I can do a blind A-B for you.

 

[akueck]

Mine are already in 12 oz bottles. I'll see if I can scrounge up some bubble wrap at work.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Ok, that clinches it, definitely the next experiment I start will be boiled vs. not boiled, to compare and contrast and report in...

 

[Zem]

I'm definitely interested. you're thoughts that it could change the flavor of eastern buckwheat is too interesting to pass up. I'll give it a go with 58w3 aimed at semi dry (1.008-1.005).

Haven't read the whole thread yet....I'll check back here to see if there are brewdates close to deciding.

 

[Medsen Fey]

I posted up the results from the Mazer cup on my Boiling Mad Mead Test with the mint honey. At the 20 month mark, the boiled batch seems to be better. So here is one more example where boiling may be of benefit.

 

[AToE]

I'm planning on doing a side by side test of this with buckwheat honey, which s one that I enjoy the taste of but wouldn't mind removing some aroma. We'll see what happens.

 

[ken_schramm]

Hmm again. If the idea of the test is to see whether boiling or not makes a mead with a honey that many object to less objectionable, then Mint and Buckwheat are good honeys to use. Perhaps driving off or denaturing some of those constituent compounds would be preferred. In some ways, this looks like evaluating a winemaking practice to see if it makes better wines out of Vitis labrusca grapes.

If the idea is to see whether boiling or not boiling preserves the enjoyable attributes of a truly spectacular meadmaking honey, then we might want to be testing with other honey varieties.

Ken

 

[Medsen Fey]

If the idea is to see whether boiling or not boiling preserves the enjoyable attributes of a truly spectacular meadmaking honey, then we might want to be testing with other honey varieties.

I think the first question was, "Is there any place for boiling a mead must (other than a Bochet) for any honey?" I'm not sure the jury is back yet, but if the answer is yes, then the question will be "which ones benefit?" I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

 

[mccann51]

I'm planning on doing a side by side test of this with buckwheat honey, which s one that I enjoy the taste of but wouldn't mind removing some aroma. We'll see what happens.

AToE, great idea. I enjoy the honey-ness of buckwheat mead a lot, but the aroma can be so overpowering. If I have some spare time and money (both, highly unlikely, ha) I'm gonna give this a go as well.

Actually, thinking about it, I recently brewed a half orange-blossom, half buckwheat w DV10. It's very young, but I can taste the potential. I was gonna knock back the buckwheat addition next time I brew it (to perhaps 1/3 or 1/4), but instead I think I'll boil the buckwheat but leave the ratios of honey the same. This will - hopefully - leave the aroma all to the orange-blossom (which I'm sure I'm not alone in enjoying) but give some depth to the flavor... crap, now I really want to try this.

I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

Goddamn it, just when I thought we had figured it all out! Haha!

 

[Chevette Girl]

I think the first question was, "Is there any place for boiling a mead must (other than a Bochet) for any honey?" I'm not sure the jury is back yet, but if the answer is yes, then the question will be "which ones benefit?" I expect trying to answer that will take us a few years.

You know, you've convinced me... once my clover honey boil/no boil show mead batches are bottled (gimme another year or two, they're clear but I'm not sure if they're actually done, they still fizz when I agitate them), I'll make sure I send a couple of bottles down to the Cup. For science.