Bubble Rate Units

[landerud]

I'm sure your method would work in a lab, but I don't have a lab. I have a few buckets, lids, carboys, and airlocks in various states of condition.
It seems a lot of work when I can just drop in the hydrometer and know in a few seconds.

They're merely suggesting (as did some people in your forum write-up) that it's probably best not to try to quantify your bubbles. Instead, let it be a 'go/no-go' type deal where, if it gives you concern, pop out your hydrometer.

I’m not disagreeing with these statements at all. I agree that without the assistance of a gas flow meter trying to quantify bubble rate into a specific gravity wouldn’t work. I personally take hydrometer readings to get the most meaningful data points about my fermentation process.

All I’m saying is bubble rate per gallon is a far more meaningful data metric than simply overall bubble rate. I also think with the assistance of some common sensors a home brew/mead friendly “bubble rate” tracker could be developed. Not one that actually counts bubbles, but tracks total Co2 production during a fermentation.

Think about a software package sending you a text message when the lag phase was complete letting you know it’s time to add nutrient. While the exact specific gravity might not be able to be calculated by a device like this it would at least get you in the ball park. This could be used to automatically let the user know when the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar breaks were hit automatically without a need to take hydrometer readings. I’m just a computer geek trying to get more data metrics about my fermentation process so I can better analyze it.

My only beef with this thread was the amount of people telling the original poster something like tracking bubble rate is a waste of time. I personally disagree and feel there could be a good amount of meaningful data derived from the process of tracking bubble rates.

 

[chams]

I understand. I just think most were just trying to show newer meadites the best practices available NOW.
I think from your other thread the best for me would be a remote digital hydrometer.
Your experiments with CO2 would be interesting to follow.
Keep us abreast.

 

[SirPsychoS]

Think about a software package sending you a text message when the lag phase was complete letting you know it’s time to add nutrient. While the exact specific gravity might not be able to be calculated by a device like this it would at least get you in the ball park.

Actually, off the top of my head, a hollow glass float of known volume and mass connected to a digital force sensor by a string of negligible mass should let you take a perfect digital reading of S.G., shouldn't it? If you can get one of those into each carboy (a bit expensive...), you should be able to implement such a system.

It could text you if dG/dt drops below a certain rate, rises above a certain rate, at the 1/3 sugar break, etc. and even automatically log S.G. at all points throughout fermentation.

 

[chams]

Actually, off the top of my head, a hollow glass float of known volume and mass connected to a digital force sensor by a string of negligible mass should let you take a perfect digital reading of S.G., shouldn't it? If you can get one of those into each carboy (a bit expensive...), you should be able to implement such a system.

It could text you if dG/dt drops below a certain rate, rises above a certain rate, at the 1/3 sugar break, etc. and even automatically log S.G. at all points throughout fermentation.

Invoking Boyle's law means you win the thread.
Since most mead makers use differential calculus I'll just bow out.

 

[Penguinetti]

Invoking Boyle's law means you win the thread.
Since most mead makers use differential calculus I'll just bow out.

Hahaha!!



Better be careful; somebody might go all Bernoulli on said asses... :book1:





;D

 

[Soyala_Amaya]

...I use addition and subtraction. See, things like this is why I tell my father there's no way I could ever go commercial.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Invoking Boyle's law means you win the thread.

LOL! Indeed! I'm barely qualified for algebra anymore, nevermind calculus, thermodynamics and fluid mechanics. <bows down to everyone who still remembers all this stuff>

I'm sorry if we sounded like we're hating on you, SirPsychoS, I'm sure none of us intended to make it personal.

Perhaps I can come up with a nicer way of explaining why a lot of us don't believe that adopting any standard of bubble rate reporting is going to yield useful data for most of us or for most new meadmakers... I come from an engineering background and though my degree has probably expired and it's been a long while since I've done unit analysis, I do remember enough that I can tell you, just to list all the variables that would need to be reconciled in comparing your 5 bubbles per second per gallon to my 5 bubbles per second per gallon AND determine how they could be reconicled would be a lot of work, when it seriously can't tell you either your specific gravity OR your rate of change of specific gravity unless it's a closed system with precision instruments right down to the type and amount of liquid in your airlock... and while it might be possible to come up with a calculation to determine your alcohol production (and hence your delta SG) based on volume of CO2 production, OMG the calculus, it hurts and stings and brings up terrible memories of mass transfer calculations! And you'd have to start all over every time you popped off the airlock to check your SG, add nutrients, aerate, degas, etc.

Short version, given the variability in each brewer, each piece of equipment and each individual batch, bubbling rates should perhaps be considered like the warning lights on your car... absence or presence tells you if something's going on that you might want to check on or if everything seems fine, but calculating how often your OIL light flashes at you is less important than getting under the hood and checking the dipstick to determine whether you just happened to slosh all the oil to one side of the oil pan momentarily (did that last week surmounting snowbanks), or you actually need to do something about it...

 

[Rhys1262]

Sorry, bubbles don't count. Hydrometer and science is your friend. Oh, and the members


Tl;dr: I smell a troll in my mead.

I hate adding to such an old post, but yes I am doing it anyway. Bubbles are part of the science. Bubbles are 1 of the first pieces of information you get it means the science is at work. Now is it the end all to be all, no it is the first indicator it tells me when it’s time to open the fermentation vessel and test SG with the hydrometer and PH meter. Just as green buggers are the first indicator (or 2nd) that I have a sinus infection. Science is 1st observation and 2nd testing. Ok now I am done with my rant.

I am yes a NewBee in mead making but my limited knowledge is this.
In the beginning you get a nice steady stream of bubbles to tell you have something going on in there that is good or maybe bad watch for ugly things growing in your liquid gold. If all you see in your glass is fizzing and a nice steady stream of bubbles in the airlock your doing good and you don’t need to Bee opening and poking your juice Science says you have yeast and sugar and nutrients in there doing their thing. As the bubbles slow down to just a few a minute you probably need to start testing with interments so 1st STARALIZE your hydrometer then float its boat and maybe take a tiny sample for a taste. Yes Tasting is also science. enjoy your new hobby, and remember its like a fish tank. don’t putz with it just enjoy.

 

[Squatchy]

Bubbles are not part of any science. Sorry. You don't learn a thing about bubbles. The most you will ever know is if your yeast have started. Nothing more

 

[TresK3]

I'm with SpeedReader and SirPsychoS on this. Here's why:

1. No, bubble rate is never going to give you actual data on how far fermentation has progressed. As we all know, you need multiple measures of SG to do that.

2. I took the Hz/Gallon as humerus suggestion, along the lines of giving speed in furlongs/fortnight. As such (and since this is just a hobby for me), I'm going to start using that in my brewing log.

3. Whether or not you are seeing bubbles out the airlock DOES give you information - it tells you if pressure is building in the headspace above your brew. Presumably, this pressure comes from (hopefully) yeast converting sugar to alcohol. As was mentioned, if bubbling stops, you might want to take a sample and see what's going on. Conversely, if it's still bubbling AND you have no other reason to open the lid, then leave it be.

4. Case in point - I just posted about an apparently stuck fermentation. After several weeks of changing temperature (moving where I'm storing the carboy), adding nutrient, and yes, measuring SG, I had decided to get some fresh yeast, make a starter, and pitch it in. Just before making the starter, I noticed bubbling from the airlock and other evidence that fermentation had restarted. Had I ignored that information, I would have just pitched the new yeast and not learned anything.

P.S. I'm going back to my last post, under "Stuck Fermentation" and changing the bubble-unit to Hz/G/