California Wine Juices: No additional yeast needed???

[PitBull]

The California juices are now in season. A two years ago I made a wonderful Valdepena using Regina wine juice, RC212 yeast and two types of oak. Unfortunately, there is only 3 bottles left in my cellar.

This year, a second distributer is available: L’uva Bella (who also sells Mosto Bello juice). These juices should arrive soon. L’uva Bella/Mosto Bello instructions (link here) state “Stir the contents gently (yeast is on the bottom).”

The Regina instructions (link here) make no mention of adding yeast at all. I have two 6 gallon buckets in hand (actually, in basement) right now.

Neither web site for these juices refers to them as “wine kits”. Neither mentions adding pectic enzyme. Could even bentonite be included in the “solids” on the bottom of their buckets? Surely they are not letting home brewers take the chance on using wild yeast for their fermentations without mentioning that.

Can anybody here enlighten us on specifics of these juices?

I’m going to call them both later today for clarification. I’ll keep you all posted.

 

[fatbloke]

Well, I have 4 buckets of fresh grape pyment on the go. 2 grape varieties (merlot and tempranillo), and while working with fresh grape is a new experience for me, I'm using normal methods to produce what I hope will be a high-ish alcohol, dark as possible, tannic brew that will need 3 plus years aging.

The lack of a yeast recommendation doesn't mean that you produce an award winning batch. The possible presence of wild yeast guarantees nothing. It's a top idea, but its all about control and maximising the possible outcomes.

RC-212 is a good yeast, but its not the only one that makes a good red. You still need to watch for H2S, etc. If you're not gonna sulphite, then K1V is a good option.

 

[PitBull]

What I found out so far...

From Regina's web site: All of our Regina products are ready to use; the acid, pH level, color, sugar content, and varietal selection have all been carefully blended and balanced to optimum specifications and desirability by our own in-house enologists.

I spoke to both companies that I mentioned in my original post, and they both said something similar to the statement above. The L’uva Bella representative told me that their yeast was a "natural" yeast, but was unable to elaborate. Neither company's representative could say if pectic enzyme was added. Both said no bentonite was added.
Regina's rep left a message for their technical personnel to return my call, but as of yet, they have not.

I get the impression that both company's products are "wine kits" (at least to some extent), with dormant yeast from the refrigerated shipping. I'm probably going to add some pectic enzyme, just to be on the safe side. And I don’t think I’ll take a chance on “natural” yeast doing the trick. I’m planning to rehydrate the following yeasts with GoFerm: D21 for the Valdepena (a.k.a. tempranillo), RC212 for the Barbera, and KV1116 for the Sauvignon Blanc. I will also be oaking both red wines.

Here’s a few links to Grape and Yeast Pairings:
http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar.php
http://www.scottlab.com/products-11.aspx
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

BTW,all of Regina's 6-gallon buckets list only the following ingredients (hence the confusion): Grape juice, sulfur dioxide acid and possibly citric acid.

 

[PitBull]

The "natural" yeast took over.

I just finished getting the Sauvignon Blanc and Barbera into their primary fermenters.

I used my precision hyrometers for the first time today and was surprised that the S.G. of the Sauvignon Blanc was only 1.073 @ 72 degrees F. I checked the S.G with a standard triple scale hydrometer and the reading checked out. The signs of fermentation were obvious but I did not think the that the S.G. would be that low.

I was REALLY surprised when the precision hydrometer sank to the bottom of the test jar for the Barbera. I had to get the mid-range hydrometer and it read 1.026 @ 77 defrees F.

Quite a temperature difference considering the juices were near freezing when I picked them up yesterday and they sat side-by-side for only 24 hours before I preprared them (as per my last posting). I have to think that they were not well refrigerated during shipping. Wine juice on the outside of the cold buckets when I picked them up attests to the notion that the fermentation was already underway. Two years ago, this was not the case with the Regina juice.

I have no idea what the O.G. was so I'm just going to assume 12-13% ABV in the finished product.

The valdepena/tempranillo will be in soon and I'll check the O.G. when the juice is still cold. I'll keep you posted.

 

[fatbloke]

Sounds like you should get some good results, but as you say, what's the real difference between grape juices like this and other "kits" ?

I mean, if its produced down to juice, then surely they're pretty much dictating levels of colour, tannins etc?

The bloke who actually collected our grapes, has started selling grapes but all he does is run them through a de-stem/crushed and into 25 litre plastic drums before freezing. So you still have to do all the other stuff yourself. Dunno, but I think I like the idea as its only 1 stage away from what we've done so far.......

Sounds like you get a better choice of varieties though (no surprise there).

Good luck with your brews......

 

[PitBull]

Sounds like you should get some good results, but as you say, what's the real difference between grape juices like this and other "kits" ?

I mean, if its produced down to juice, then surely they're pretty much dictating levels of colour, tannins etc?

The bloke who actually collected our grapes, has started selling grapes but all he does is run them through a de-stem/crushed and into 25 litre plastic drums before freezing. So you still have to do all the other stuff yourself. Dunno, but I think I like the idea as its only 1 stage away from what we've done so far.......

Sounds like you get a better choice of varieties though (no surprise there).

Good luck with your brews......

There does not appear to be a lot of difference between these buckets and true kits except you provide your own oak, stabilizers and clarifiers. They also cost only about half the price of a middle quality wine kit, which makes them a great deal. The part that I dislike is the yeast fermenting on its own accord, without need to pitch.

However, the buckets are marketed as "wine juice". No where on the bucket does it mention that it is anything other than "Grape juice, sulfur dioxide and possibly citric acid." No instructions appear on the bucket. The retailer did not mention it either. I thought I was getting 100% pressed juice and would have the satisfaction of producing the wine from scratch, except for the pressing of the grapes of course.

Regina has a great selection of juices, 34 varities in all. It was only a couple of days ago when I returned to their web site to get a description of grapes that I saw the link "wine making". I thought is was just very basic instructions. I was quite surprised to see the juice had been "blended and balanced to optimum specifications".

I spoke to the retailer today (we are on first name basis) and they said that shipping was problematic this year and the Barbera was one of the two that had undergone the most premature fermentation.

Thanks for the good luck wishes. I'm confident these will turn out well. After all, it's pretty hard to mess up a kit.

 

[schlapppy]

I've also picked up my fair share of wine bucket from the same brand names that PitBull described.. probably from the same sources actually

I've been getting the buckets from consumers produce in Pittsburgh Strip district for a few years now with mixed results. I can tell you.. that not all vendors that you order from there balance their PH. I've had a few that have been off the chart. I'm more tempted to go back to kits instead of the buckets.. because although sometimes you get great results... other times.. you don't.

 

[Mars Colonist]

I have to think that they were not well refrigerated during shipping.

I think the shippers are turning off their refrigerator equipment for a while during travel to save on diesel. We saw that same kind of thing on our grapes from California (to Texas) last year. Moldy syrah...hmm.

This years shipment was handled better (just got Zin and Cab Sauv yesterday.. doing my Cab/cotton blossom pyment again)

 

[BBBF]

I picked up a pail of chardonnay and pinot noir this year. I got home, added some sulphite to both and before adding yeast the next day, the pinot was already going. I took a refractometer reading, which was already down to 1.05. I know that number isn't correct because of the alcohol, but it confirmed that there was already a strong fermentation in progress.

I need to check the brand and find out if they added a specific yeast or if it was wild.