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Capacity/Demand Questions

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Kee

Kee

NewBee
Registered Member
Apr 27, 2008
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Phoenix, AZ
I’m still a total noob, but I'm seriously thinking about starting a meadery in a few years (or more). It’s probably because my carboys are full, and I’m bored and looking for a new project. So, I’m looking into the licensing and cost, etc.

I'm just not sure how to calculate initial capacity and, therefore, ROI. I'm not sure how to begin even putting a ballpark figure together for demand. If I under estimate, I could theoretically be out of mead for a while. I do have connections that can my products into most of the local Scottsdale clubs, so it could go well. On the other hand, I could very easily go too big and be out of business before I can get to market! So is there any sort of formula or ‘rule of thumb’ to help get a ballpark on demand?

I’m not running out to buy equipment. I’m just trying to determine if there are commercial opportunities in my future that I should explore. What are your thoughts on all this?

Thanks.
Kee
 
Kee,

As someone who can now say he makes mead for a living, I'm sorry to say there is no "rule of thumb". We opened on August 1st (mead day) and sold out of 4 of 5 meads within 6 weeks. We had no idea that the demand for mead (or the press we'd get) would be so great.

That said, we went into this believing that it would be only a nights and weekends gig. Only after we'd already started down the path to becoming a licensed winery did we learn of all kinds of obstacles that we'd have to overcome. There are many laws surrounding the alcohol business which you'll have to acquaint yourself with. Plus all the other laws and taxes you'll have to learn just to open a business of any kind.

So in terms of estimating your demand, start small. It's far better to only expect to sell 10 cases a month, and then run out in two weeks. If your product is hard to find, than it will create a different kind of demand. As long as your products are good, people will look for it. To counter this shortage of supply, you must make sure you can turn-over good quality meads in a short amount of time.

In the end, the equipment you buy should be an afterthought. Unless you live in a rural area, you'll probably need to rent a commercial space. Make sure you check the local zoning laws. Start by speaking with your local city planning department. Tell them what you're planning to do. They'll point you in the right direction.

I could probably write a whole book on starting a meadery now, or at least start consulting. So there's way more information than I can put in this post. Just make sure you estimate your costs high, and your revenues low. If you think you can still pull in a profit, then get started. :)

Oh, and just in case you're wondering. Buy as big of equipment as you can afford without impacting cashflow. You're going to grow into it. You can also collect more equipment along the way. We started with 2 x 30gallon (homemade) HDPE conical fermenters,8x15 gallon drums and about 20 carboys of different sizes. We now have 20x 55gal primary fermenters, 4 x 1000L stainless variable capacity tanks and 9 bourbon barrels.

We're still bottling with two Enolmatic bottle fillers, and an Italian floor corker. We have two heat shrink capsulers, and a Race Jr. labeler. For rinsing/sanitizing bottles, we use the rinsing/sparging setup from More Beer hooked up to a SuperJet pump (bypassing the filters) to recirculate. A 1000L tank can fill approximately 100 cases of mead. It takes about 7 hours from start to finish to bottle with 5 people.

Cheers,
 
Thank you, Brad. This was invaluable!! I'm literally just trying to figure out if we could make a profit and didn't know if I should estimate making 250 liters a year or 25,000! It was starting to get the idea I should write a bunch of numbers on the wall, spin around blindfolded and throw a dart!

I know this is probably just a day dream. I've only just spent a few days in actual research and have not even repeated a single recipe, but I can't believe the laws and regulations and hoops you and everyone who's made the leap have had to jump through! I will never look at a bottle of wine or mead the same again!

If I decide to do this, I'll keep in mind you're willing to consult! :)

Thanks again.
Heather
 
Brad,

I was just up in Napa and was cruising on the wine sites I frequent when I ran across this posting that may be of interest. The price seems right, and I have bottled on one of these before and they work pretty nicely.

Cheers, Pete
 
PBakulic said:
Brad,

I was just up in Napa and was cruising on the wine sites I frequent when I ran across this posting that may be of interest. The price seems right, and I have bottled on one of these before and they work pretty nicely.

Cheers, Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete! That does look like a good price. We're at the point where we're looking at something bigger, but we're trying to decide whether to upgrade our corker at the same time or just get another floor corker and another person to help. We couldn't keep up with this bottle filler with only one corker. Yea, yea...not a bad problem to have. I still can't believe I make mead for a living. Life certainly doesn't suck. :)
 
Brad,

What does it take for you to include a new recipe for your meads? Do you need approval to change types of honey? The Residual sweetness? After you're licensed what type of freedom or restrictions do you come under for your batches? Are you required to sulfite or filter?

Cheers,
Wrathwilde
 
Brad Dahlhofer said:
Thanks Pete! That does look like a good price. We're at the point where we're looking at something bigger, but we're trying to decide whether to upgrade our corker at the same time or just get another floor corker and another person to help. We couldn't keep up with this bottle filler with only one corker. Yea, yea...not a bad problem to have. I still can't believe I make mead for a living. Life certainly doesn't suck. :)
Click to expand...

I just gotta say...that is so cool

lol
 
Hey Brad,

I though I saw a reasonably priced corker in there somewhere too, but, someone may have snatched it up. I'll keep an eye open. I was just through the northern wine country in California last week to look at a few places and some equipment. I feel the draw getting heavier and heavier on me.

Cheers, Oskaar
 
Thanks Pete, I'd rather buy used if I can. I picked up my practically new Race JR. labeler for only $700 with the gap guide. Those things aren't cheap, but are SO worth the money. I'm sure we're going to break down and buy an auto corker sometime within the next few months. The bottler will probably follow right afterwards. Otherwise we're going to break our backs on that floor corker. 100 cases is a LOT of mead to cork. Especially when you're doing 375ml.

PBakulic said:
I was just through the northern wine country in California last week to look at a few places and some equipment. I feel the draw getting heavier and heavier on me.
Click to expand...

The dark side of the force IS strong. :)
 
We started with 2 x 30gallon (homemade) HDPE conical fermenters,8x15 gallon drums and about 20 carboys of different sizes.
Click to expand...

Query 1: What's your average turn over rate for your fermenters? IE, how long does the mead remain in your fermenters before bottling and/or being moved to bulk aging?

Query 2: On average, how long from start to finish does it take to make a bottle of your mead?

Thanks! Glad to see someone here is "living the dream". :D
 
I'll chime in here with some of our experiences too.

Like Brad, we are getting and/or updating equipment as needed. Just got a new corker and our Race JR labeler is on the way! :)

We started with 9 x 186 gallon stainless fermenters and have since bought 3 more. We should be set for a while now.

Our mead bulk ages in the secondary fermenters for 5-12 months, depending on type. In the bottle, we just taste until we feel it's ready. Usually within a few months.

Here's a newspaper article that tells a bit more about how we started:

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009901250350
 
MrMooCow said:
Query 1: What's your average turn over rate for your fermenters? IE, how long does the mead remain in your fermenters before bottling and/or being moved to bulk aging?

Query 2: On average, how long from start to finish does it take to make a bottle of your mead?

Thanks! Glad to see someone here is "living the dream". :D
Click to expand...


1. Our mead spends about 3-6 weeks in the primary fermenters, then another 2 months (approx) in secondary.

2. About 3 months... sometimes more, sometimes less. But always to our taste. Nothing leaves the meadery until we think it's ready.
 
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