counter fining bentonite

[tweak'e]

whats best for counter fining bentonite?

want to clear a cyser but have problems with bentonite's fluffy bulky lees. aslo want to get it of the yeast lees fairly quickly which limits settling time.
i have heard you can use something like gelatin or kieselsol after the bentonite which will compact the fluffy lees so you don't loose so much liquid when you rack.

whats best to use and doesn't strip flavor out?

 

[Medsen Fey]

The more stuff you add, the more likely you are to strip out stuff you want to keep. However, Bentonite is negatively charged, so if you want to counter-fine then using a positively charged agent will be helpful (Kieselsol is negatively charged). Sparkolloid would be my first choice, but I've not found it (or any agents) to really make that much of an improvement in the lees produced by Bentonite. YMMV.

 

[randrick]

I make a late harvest white wine from a kit. Bentonite goes in just before pitching the yeast. Then racked off bentonite lees into secondary. Then Kieselsol added and Chitosan added an hour later. The combination leaves a bentonite treated wine brilliantly clear. Packets containing both can be found. One is called Super-Kleer K.C. Hope this help.

 

[tweak'e]

yeah thats the catch, too little and get drop out in the bottles, too much and it strips flavor.
i might do a 1/4 dose of gelatin and Kieselsol.

 

[Lazarusknite]

This thread is old, but it seems to be on-topic for my question. Hopefully this is the appropriate place to post. I just signed onto the forums about a week ago.

Question: Can too much bentonite cause a haze?

I had some very hazy mead from a short mead kit from the Beefolks and discovered bentonite when I went looking for a solution. The mead came clear after a 1/2 teaspoon, 24-hour treatment with bentonite. So I decided to see if it was possible to get it clearer by treating the mead again with the bentonite. But now the mead seems to be stuck back in a hazy form. My only conclusion is that there is nothing left for the negatively charged bentonite to attach to? So now the bentonite is the haze?

Follow-up question: Can adding sugar or something with a positive charge help drop out the bentonite haze? Assuming that my deduction about the new haze is correct.

 

[psychopomp23]

This thread is old, but it seems to be on-topic for my question. Hopefully this is the appropriate place to post. I just signed onto the forums about a week ago.

Question: Can too much bentonite cause a haze?

I had some very hazy mead from a short mead kit from the Beefolks and discovered bentonite when I went looking for a solution. The mead came clear after a 1/2 teaspoon, 24-hour treatment with bentonite. So I decided to see if it was possible to get it clearer by treating the mead again with the bentonite. But now the mead seems to be stuck back in a hazy form. My only conclusion is that there is nothing left for the negatively charged bentonite to attach to? So now the bentonite is the haze?

Follow-up question: Can adding sugar or something with a positive charge help drop out the bentonite haze? Assuming that my deduction about the new haze is correct.

I'm not 100% sure about the adding part but technicly i would say yes but i think your best bet would be to 'cold crash' it. Put your container somewhere cold (like your fridge) for a day or two and this usualy help in clearing your mead. The cold makes it drop the sediments to the bottom.
See if that helps

 

[Lazarusknite]

Cold Crashing - oops, I knew I forgot to mention something I'd actually already done that and gotten zero results after over 48 hours. I even froze it and thawed it, which has worked in the past, and still had cloudy mead.

Final Result - it looks like my initial assumption were correct, the bentonite had become the cause of the haze. I back-sweetened with some extra honey on my lunch break and put the jug back into the fridge. By the time I got home from work that night, the sediment had dropped and the mead was clear

Conclusions - I made three of these Short Mead kits together, one was relatively clear while two were extrememly murky. One of the murky batches responded well to cold crashing while the other did not. Treated each with a single dose of bentonite and all three were crystal clear within 24-hours. A second dose with bentonite actually created cloudiness. So I feel safe in concluding that a single, 1/2 teaspoon treatment for 1 Gallon of mead with remove whatever fine particles there are in the batch and turn the mead as clear as it going to get. Additional treatments will only cause issues.

 

[A Stephenson]

In the UK we have a product called Kwik Clear, which consists of two bottles containing Kieselsol and Gelatine solution.

It reports that bouquet and flavour are unaffected by this product.

This fining agents works by first adding the negatively charged Keiselsol, waiting for 30 minutes and then adding the positively charged Gelatine.

Wine should clear within 24-72 hours.

I have used this with great success and it clears sediment laden wines well. I am unsure of the exact quantities of gelatine and Keiselsol in the solutions but if you have both, it is worth giving them a go in that order.

This process also works for removing excess tannin in wines.

 

[Chevette Girl]

And sometimes you just get a really stubborn batch, I've hit one batch with bentonite, sparkolloid, AND the chitosan or kieselsol I never used with a wine kit that dropped clear on its own... still cloudy.

It's doubtful that the bentonite IS the haze, it should drop out on its own.

I've heard other folks who have added tannins have a lot of stuff drop out right afterwards, that's the next thing I'm going to try on my obnoxiously stubborn batch... then the wine filter if that doesn't help.