Doomed from the beginning...?
- Thread starter Boogaloo
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Hey, that's why I spend so much time working on how to do high temperature fermentations and how to fix sulfur odors! ;D
Lol, that's what I was thinking! Maybe I could find some weave for a racking cane cozy?
Or something that fits on the end of the racking cane so you treat it as it's sucked through
But back on topic, how's your mead going now, Boogaloo?
Newbie mistakes Vol.2
Glad you asked. I'm labeling this post Newbie Mistakes Vol.2. What NOT to do!
WELL, made it to the homebrew store last night and picked up a hydrometer, thermometer, another jug, airlock, plug w/hole, nutrient and energizer. Made it home and started sanitizing. Put some bleach water in the new jug and decided to boil some water to sanitize the little things like spoon, funnel, plugs, airlocks, etc.
MISTAKE # 1 - flimsy plastic airlocks do not handle boiling water very well!! Hahahha... what was i thinking. These things still work but they are all bent and deformed. MAN.. big mistake and it will never happen again. I deserve a big DUH for that one.
So as my airlocks are boiling away and my jug sanitizing I decide to start my yeast. I pour out some water and heat it to around 90 degrees. ( I didn't burn my yeast this time) I had two batches going, one of D47 and the other EC-1116. My girlfriend wanted something more dry and the homebrew guy suggested it. I also remembered it from the newbee section. So I took the spoon out of the boiling water and cool it off. So I decide to give the yeast a small stir.
MISTAKE # 2 - I stirred the EC-1116 yeast, didn't clean off the spoon and then stirred up the D47!!! So I'm guessing the EC yeast contaminated the D47. Will this ruin the D47 batch? Is it officially a EC batch now?? I can only assume the EC will outlive the D47. MAN!!
I wait a while, rinse out the sanitizing jub real well. Then split the old mead concentrate into new jug and add water,yeast,energizer,nutrient. Shake the heck out of it for 5 mins each jug. Sanitized the thermometer and hydrometer in the airlock soup. 74 degrees and 1.102 OG (or was it 1.022). Fitted the plug and picasso style airlocks.
I'm happy to say they are now bubbling away at home. I feel like a new Dad... I message home every hour checking up on my jugs. =)
Glad you asked. I'm labeling this post Newbie Mistakes Vol.2. What NOT to do!
WELL, made it to the homebrew store last night and picked up a hydrometer, thermometer, another jug, airlock, plug w/hole, nutrient and energizer. Made it home and started sanitizing. Put some bleach water in the new jug and decided to boil some water to sanitize the little things like spoon, funnel, plugs, airlocks, etc.
MISTAKE # 1 - flimsy plastic airlocks do not handle boiling water very well!! Hahahha... what was i thinking. These things still work but they are all bent and deformed. MAN.. big mistake and it will never happen again. I deserve a big DUH for that one.
So as my airlocks are boiling away and my jug sanitizing I decide to start my yeast. I pour out some water and heat it to around 90 degrees. ( I didn't burn my yeast this time) I had two batches going, one of D47 and the other EC-1116. My girlfriend wanted something more dry and the homebrew guy suggested it. I also remembered it from the newbee section. So I took the spoon out of the boiling water and cool it off. So I decide to give the yeast a small stir.
MISTAKE # 2 - I stirred the EC-1116 yeast, didn't clean off the spoon and then stirred up the D47!!! So I'm guessing the EC yeast contaminated the D47. Will this ruin the D47 batch? Is it officially a EC batch now?? I can only assume the EC will outlive the D47. MAN!!
I wait a while, rinse out the sanitizing jub real well. Then split the old mead concentrate into new jug and add water,yeast,energizer,nutrient. Shake the heck out of it for 5 mins each jug. Sanitized the thermometer and hydrometer in the airlock soup. 74 degrees and 1.102 OG (or was it 1.022). Fitted the plug and picasso style airlocks.
I'm happy to say they are now bubbling away at home. I feel like a new Dad... I message home every hour checking up on my jugs. =)
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good question. Both of these are actively competitive against other strains of yeast.
1116 has a larger temp range so if you put it into a range that is inhospitable to the D47 you might kill it off and have a 1116 batch
It's also possible that the D47 being competitive and significantly outnumbering the cell count of the 1116 in the jar will just eat the 1116 alive.
1116 is recommended for stuck fermentation though, so it might be even heartier then the d47.
I guess I'm saying... I don't know, but it's a very interesting critical thinking exercise!
EC-1118 and K1V-1116 are both decent yeasts, which one do you have?
From what I've read here on this forum, I think the K1V has more of a killer tendency of the three but if D-47 is more plentiful and also has killer tendency it will probably win, I would think. I do believe the EC-1118 is also a killer, it's the one that's especially good for restarting stuck ferments.
I think the D-47 is also the one that throws off a lot of sulphur if it's too warm a fermentation, so I wouldn't count on a higher temp being a good way to keep the EC-1118 or K1V-1116 at an advantage.
I'd highly recommend getting some potassium metabisulphite or one of the one-step sanitizers, I don't think boiling your hydrometer is a great idea, rapid temp changes are not good for thin little glass items... and also as you discovered, not great for your airlocks. If your stoppers are rubber it might make them age faster too, I only ever boil metal items for sterilization. Keeping a jar and a spray bottle of sanitizing solution should make it easy to dunk or spray everything clean.
We'll save you some time and money on this one too: do NOT boil your racking cane or hydrometer test tube when the time comes, the plastic will crackle and its lifespan will be significantly reduced. That kind of plastic is not even good with dishwasher temps.
From what I've read here on this forum, I think the K1V has more of a killer tendency of the three but if D-47 is more plentiful and also has killer tendency it will probably win, I would think. I do believe the EC-1118 is also a killer, it's the one that's especially good for restarting stuck ferments.
I think the D-47 is also the one that throws off a lot of sulphur if it's too warm a fermentation, so I wouldn't count on a higher temp being a good way to keep the EC-1118 or K1V-1116 at an advantage.
I'd highly recommend getting some potassium metabisulphite or one of the one-step sanitizers, I don't think boiling your hydrometer is a great idea, rapid temp changes are not good for thin little glass items... and also as you discovered, not great for your airlocks. If your stoppers are rubber it might make them age faster too, I only ever boil metal items for sterilization. Keeping a jar and a spray bottle of sanitizing solution should make it easy to dunk or spray everything clean.
We'll save you some time and money on this one too: do NOT boil your racking cane or hydrometer test tube when the time comes, the plastic will crackle and its lifespan will be significantly reduced. That kind of plastic is not even good with dishwasher temps.
My bet is that you'll get a significant amount of the D47 characteristics, but you may end up with a higher alcohol mead (K1V-1116 is ~16% and EC-1118 is ~18% tolerance under ideal situations). Of course, all the yeasts mentioned will likely take you to dry since 1.102 is only about 13.5% potential alcohol and the weekest of the yests, D47, is 14% potential alcohol. Assuming you use some yeast nutrients... Following Medsen's advice on the DAP and fermaid-K for your recipe will drastically improve the chances of your mead (well I guess meads at this point) turning out well.
I second Chevette Girl on the no rinse sanitizers. I use Star-San. I know others use iodophor. They also save time on your brew day. And, bonus, no boiling liquids.
Kyle
I second Chevette Girl on the no rinse sanitizers. I use Star-San. I know others use iodophor. They also save time on your brew day. And, bonus, no boiling liquids.
Kyle
I used EC-1118. And will definitely look for that Star-San stuff Kyle. Thanks for all the suggestions as well Chevette! Looks like I'm just gonna have to wait it out. ♪ You live.... You learn. ♪
Well, my two jugs have been bubbling but over the night they both bubbled up a bunch after I first mixed them and now there is a scum like stuff on the sides! It looks horrible and the newbee guide said it's dangerous because it can grow mold on it. How do I take care of this problem? Scrub it off or get a new jug and transfer it in there? I'm worried that transferring it during the main fermentation will ruin it somehow. Is this possible?
I'll try to attach pictures. Any advice would be awesome. ;D
Well, my two jugs have been bubbling but over the night they both bubbled up a bunch after I first mixed them and now there is a scum like stuff on the sides! It looks horrible and the newbee guide said it's dangerous because it can grow mold on it. How do I take care of this problem? Scrub it off or get a new jug and transfer it in there? I'm worried that transferring it during the main fermentation will ruin it somehow. Is this possible?
I'll try to attach pictures. Any advice would be awesome. ;D
Just (carefully, CAREFULLY! Don't want a mead explosion) swirl the meads for a few minutes, one way and then the other, try out get out as much dissolved gas as you can - then put a lid on it and shake it. Again, be really careful, shake maybe once or twice, release pressure. Repeat until it seems safe to shake more. This way you can clean up all that gunk and aerate it at the same time if you shake it enough.
You might be able to get the gunk off the sides just with some swirling with the airlock on, then when you're done clean the airlock stopper off and re-insert it. You can get pretty vigorous with swirling but start slow or you may get a mead explosion...
I've never had much success shaking anything with a lid on, I always make a big mess
I've never had much success shaking anything with a lid on, I always make a big mess
See, if it was my batch, I'd just aerate it enough to remove as much CO2 as possible and only then put a stopper in and shake the hell out of it. The shaking will remove most, if not all the yeast scum stuck on the glass.
As for no rinse sanitisers, well I just rinse my stuff in soap and water, cleaning with cloth/brush, then that's rinsed in water and then the surface is sprayed with a mix of 5 crushed campden tablets in 1 pint of water, then a teaspoon of citric acid is mixed in - that's kept in a spray. I only keep it for a month as it can let out too much of the sulphur to be properly effective.
The D47 batch ? Well I suggest that you presume it's gonna be fine and treat it accordingly by trying to keep it below 70F during the ferment (Swamp cooler/evaporative cooling), so it doesn't make too much, if any, fusels. In the early stages of mead making, it's often better to try and make batches that are likely to come out good - because ones that don't or need extra treatment, like long aging, can knock the confidence of the newer mead maker and turn them away from the craft.......
Apart from that, good luck with your batches. My only parting shot, is that I suggest irrespective of what the HBS people say, try and stay away from champagne yeasts, unless you're actually making a mead with champagne like characteristics (light colour, dry, sparkling etc), because they do seem to have a habit of making possibly nice batches quite bland in that champagne sort of way (blowing a lot of the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavouring elements straight out the airlock). If you are thinking of higher alcohol meads that will be good with a little age, then K1V-1116 (now revised to reflect it's 18% tolerance, not 16% as previously published), or possibly D21.
Newbee guide is here.....
regards
fatbloke
As for no rinse sanitisers, well I just rinse my stuff in soap and water, cleaning with cloth/brush, then that's rinsed in water and then the surface is sprayed with a mix of 5 crushed campden tablets in 1 pint of water, then a teaspoon of citric acid is mixed in - that's kept in a spray. I only keep it for a month as it can let out too much of the sulphur to be properly effective.
The D47 batch ? Well I suggest that you presume it's gonna be fine and treat it accordingly by trying to keep it below 70F during the ferment (Swamp cooler/evaporative cooling), so it doesn't make too much, if any, fusels. In the early stages of mead making, it's often better to try and make batches that are likely to come out good - because ones that don't or need extra treatment, like long aging, can knock the confidence of the newer mead maker and turn them away from the craft.......
Apart from that, good luck with your batches. My only parting shot, is that I suggest irrespective of what the HBS people say, try and stay away from champagne yeasts, unless you're actually making a mead with champagne like characteristics (light colour, dry, sparkling etc), because they do seem to have a habit of making possibly nice batches quite bland in that champagne sort of way (blowing a lot of the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavouring elements straight out the airlock). If you are thinking of higher alcohol meads that will be good with a little age, then K1V-1116 (now revised to reflect it's 18% tolerance, not 16% as previously published), or possibly D21.
Newbee guide is here.....
regards
fatbloke
I did the shaking method and it worked! I cleaned off all the junk on the sides. =) I was sure to take off the stopper after every shake to let the gases escape. The two gallon jugs are bubbling away!
Quick question though... the big rises in bubbles was caused by me adding nutrients and energizer. Is this normal? Should I expect a lot of bubbles when introducing nutrients/energizers in the future?
Quick question though... the big rises in bubbles was caused by me adding nutrients and energizer. Is this normal? Should I expect a lot of bubbles when introducing nutrients/energizers in the future?
Yeah, fizzing when you add powders is very common, can cause mead eruption accidents if you're not careful. I think it's got to do with a sudden increase in surface area that carbon dioxide can form on as it comes out of your must.
It's a good idea to degas (gently stir) or aerate (violently stir) for a few minutes before adding things, just in case (gently if you're in secondary or past the halfway mark of your fermentation and don't want to introduce more oxygen, violently if you're still at the beginning where it needs oxygen anyway.
It's a good idea to degas (gently stir) or aerate (violently stir) for a few minutes before adding things, just in case (gently if you're in secondary or past the halfway mark of your fermentation and don't want to introduce more oxygen, violently if you're still at the beginning where it needs oxygen anyway.
Dissolving the nutrients in a little warm water before pouring them in also reduces the violent eruptions.
Thanks for the tips!! I'll definitely remember them. =)
What happens if you ingest these nutrients instead of the yeast eating them? Are they toxic at all? Or will you get sick? Just curious.....
What happens if you ingest these nutrients instead of the yeast eating them? Are they toxic at all? Or will you get sick? Just curious.....
I didn't know that about the DAP...
I know from reading that many of the rest of the nutrients are very good for humans in the right quantities:
Vitamin C
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Magnesium
