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Elderberry Pickin' Fool

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Elderberry puree

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm going to add 1 3lb can of the elderberry puree to 1/2 of my berry melomel batch and see what happens. I found out that the wild elderberry plants that grow here are poisonous, except for the pulp of the berry. I assume this means that the skins are also toxic but I will get some more information before I experiment.
 
Aren't most elderberries poisonous to some degree? (Hey, so is mead technically!)

I joke, but I am actually curious if some are worse than others.
 
They indeed are, to some degree. The leaves and stems of elderberries contain a cyanide-producing glycoside, and unripe berries of all of them contain significant amounts of hydrocyanic acid (hydrogen cyanide dissolved in water - this is the "classic" prussic acid poison, having a taste reminiscent of "bitter almonds"). The black varieties of berry (sambucus nigra) lose most of the cyanide content when the fruits ripen, but some folks still report a sensitivity to the residuals. When ripe elderberries are cooked (at temperatures at or above about 175F) the hydrocyanic acid binds with other compounds in the fruit and the result is entirely non-toxic.

NOTE: Red elderberries (which are actually a pink to deep red when ripe) DO NOT lose their cyanide content when they ripen, and should be avoided.

I make my elderberry based meads with black elderberries, and I don't cook them first. If any cyanide content survives the fermentation process, I haven't found it to be significant enough to cause even mild discomfort in anyone who has consumed a glass or two of my elderberry mels. But if you are worried about residual cyanide content, then either cook your berries or use the commercial purees, which are heat processed when they are canned.
 
They can be poisonous. The stems and leaves certainly are, and this is true of all species (including blue elderberry and red elderberry). The unripe berries also contain Sambunigrin and other cyanide related compounds that can cause severe GI distress and possibly worse. The amount of these toxins varies from location to location so unless you have yours tested, you can't really know if yours have significant amounts or not.

Boiling the berries will break down the toxins, as will drying them. I'm not certain if fermentation does or not - I haven't been able to find a source to confirm that one way or the other (Anyone have something on this?). So the safest way to handle them is to cook them (it also eliminates the Oobleck (green goo)).

I'm read that the red elderberry (a group of related species, not the unripe berries) may be more toxic, and they probably should be cooked, but I don't have scholarly documentation to confirm that.

I use only the ripe black berries, and I spend a lot of time cleaning all the unripe green and red berries off the clusters because I don't want to cook the berries. It might be smarter (and a whole lot easier) to just simmer them for a little while, but I have this aversion to cooking fruit unless I'm making jelly.

Edit - Wayne's leaving me in the dust today!
 
Medsen and wayneb

You guys are amazing in your depth of knowledge. I don't have to do any research, I will just ask you guys! We have red elderberries and therefore I will stay away from them. Thank you both.
 
Good to know if I get my hands on some berries when I go to make that recipe. From the sound of things though, they're hard to get so I might be stuck with buying puree on-line.
 
Elderberry puree suggestions

Today I bought a 06 oz can of Vintners Harvest Elderberry puree. I would like to use this in an experimental batch of berry melomel which is now in secondary(see OB honey melomel brewlog) with a mix of blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, and cranberries. I would like to rack off enough of the latter and add some elderberry puree and more honey, if necessary, to make a 3 gallon batch which will be dry and about 13% ABV. I want enought elderberry to add to the flavor, but not overwhelm it. Any suggestions about how I should add? Does anyone know the SG of this puree? Thanks,

Steve
 
60 oz can?

Elderberries have a ton of tannins and will overpower a lot of weaker fruit.

I would suggest that you start with 16 oz or so depending on how much flavor the mead currently has.
 
I was checking out some vintners harvest purees online, those are NOT cheap. Something like 40$ for 5 or 6 lbs (I think it said 96oz, can't recall). If that's what I have to do, I guess that's what I'll do, but man, OUCH! I'd be spending over a hundred bucks to make Wayne's recipe once shipping was included.

EDIT: Over a 100$ on just these berries that is of course.
 
AToE said:
I was checking out some vintners harvest purees online, those are NOT cheap. Something like 40$ for 5 or 6 lbs (I think it said 96oz, can't recall). If that's what I have to do, I guess that's what I'll do, but man, OUCH! I'd be spending over a hundred bucks to make Wayne's recipe once shipping was included.

EDIT: Over a 100$ on just these berries that is of course.
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That price sounds about right. I remember seeing a can of elderberries that cost around that much at my LHBS, and currants are even more expensive! Hence, I stick with local fruit.
 
There was an error in my post. I bought a 96oz can of Vintners Harvest Elderberry puree for $40. What is the SG. The can says it can be used to make a 3 to 5 gal batch of elderberry wine and if I substitute honey for sugar it should make a similar strenght melomel. Any suggestions? Anyone know the SG of this puree?
 
I've been working on an Elderberry recipe for three years. Harvest the berries and freeze them in a 1/2 gallon zip lock bag. To clean the stems out of the berries smack the baggie a few times to knock the berries off the stems then pick the stems out of the baggie. When you brew the melomel let the primary fermetation run for about 4 weeks till it has slowed down then add a full 1/2 gallon ziplock baggie of berries to the must. I have never boiled or heated the berries, just tossed them in the bucket. Let the frementation run for another week then rack off the berries to the secondary. Rack every month or so till the mel clears and you are ready to bulk age or bottle. Don't let it sit on the berries too long, I have gotten some off flavors after 3-4 weeks on the elderberries.
 
I make 2 versions of elderberry mead's.

The first comes from the bushes in my back yard, from the fresh picked berries. I use about 2.5 lbs of berries per gallons of must. It makes a slightly sweet, almost red wine like mead. very good.

Then I make a elderberry mead-port from dried elderberries. My Port of Elderberry Mead ends up with 18-20% alcohol, with extremely port like characteristics. I developed the recipe while looking for something to substitute for the vintage ports that I have aging in my cellar. I wanted something that would be port-like, but drinkable young. Which this is, however it gets much better with age!

If you want to taste the difference and are in the Maryland area, I would be happy to open a bottle of both...

Brian
 
Medsen Fey said:
...it ain't been easy. It is usually 90-95F, and the humidity is 75-90% - basically it's like picking fruit in a steam bath. If that wasn't enough, I'm dodging fire ants and some tropical spiders that are almost the size of blue crabs (literally 2-3 inch bodies) that even if not poisonous, their bite can take a chunk of meat big enough to require stitches. We also have enough mosquitoes swarming to leave you a pint of blood short by they time you're done, and of course, you better keep an eye out for gators.
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If I wasn't having enough fun, now I have to worry about Dengue Fever (nicknamed break bone fever). Apparently it has been identified in the Florida Keys, and possibly in Miami. It's a nasty viral infection spread by mosquitoes - gotta love the tropics! :eek:

On the brighter side, at least I haven't seen a Burmese Python.
 
Medsen Fey said:
If I wasn't having enough fun, now I have to worry about Dengue Fever (nicknamed break bone fever). Apparently it has been identified in the Florida Keys, and possibly in Miami. It's a nasty viral infection spread by mosquitoes - gotta love the tropics! :eek:

On the brighter side, at least I haven't seen a Burmese Python.
Click to expand...

Holy Cow :nono:

I think the store bought stuff would be a better solution ;D
 
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