Fast ferment? Step-feeding? Halp.

[sahrah]

Hi everyone,

I'm making my first little batch of mead and have learned a lot from these forums. As a newb, and I don't want to shock anyone here, I have made some mistakes. It's still in primary and I'd like to do what I can to improve the situation or just learn from it.

Recipe:

Primary fermentation vessel: 1 gallon glass carboy
1.5lb local raw honey (initially)
1.5lb pawpaw pulp, frozen then thawed
enough water to get to where the carboy starts to curve in
2gm Red Star Cotes de blancs yeast rehydrated in go ferm
1tsp pectic enzyme
OG 1.068, pH 5.01

I just warmed the honey enough to mix it in the water, waited for it to cool before adding rehydrated yeast. Mixed it all into the carboy with the fruit, put on an airlock and placed it in a dark room, probably about 67-72 degrees Fahrenheit in there at different times of day. It started very actively bubbling in the airlock after about 4 hours. Stirred 2x/day for the first 3 days and added DAP every other day starting 24 hours after pitching yeast. At 24 hours the pH came down to 3.9. After 3 days there was no active bubbling in air lock. First questions: Was this just a fast ferment? Was my temperature too high? Supposedly CDB tolerates 64-86 degrees, according to the interwebs. I did notice the carboy felt warmer to touch than the room temp. When I saw the bubbling had completely stopped, I took another pH (3.56) and added 1/4th tsp potassium bicarb bringing the pH up to 3.89. SG was 1.005 (so about 8.9% ABV?) It tasted very sour (not off-sour, just very dry sour), and although I was shooting for a dryish mead and I know taste at that point isn't very meaningful, I thought maybe there wasn't enough honey in my initial recipe and that's why ferment stopped. So then I made the sketchy decision to add another 1/2 lb honey and didn't recheck the SG. I know, this was dumb. So then I also moved it to a slightly cooler spot (about 65 degrees consistently) and it started bubbling along again for 2 more days and then stopped again, after which the SG was 1.000 (that was this morning). So now I'm on day 6 and it's still in the primary vessel, I haven't racked yet. More questions:

- Why is this fermentation happening so fast?
- Is there a way to estimate the ABV without knowing my SG after adding honey the second time?
- I think I understand that step-feeding honey prolongs fermentation and increases the ABV more than if I had added it all up front, right? Wouldn't the yeast still crap out when it reaches about 14% ABV (supposedly the top of range for this yeast)? I really don't want to have a crazy high ABV.
- When should I rack? I was going to wait a few days to let it clear, but I've read conflicting things about this since there's fruit in there (some bits are floating on the surface but most of it is sediment at this point).
- It smells nice, but tastes kinda like sour moonshine with hints of rubbing alcohol. I know it needs to sit and age. Any advice on additives that can make it more.... pleasant? The pawpaw flavor is there but I may need to backsweeten later because the fruit flavor doesn't jive well with the dryness - pawpaws are sweet fruits and it's weird to have that flavor without the sweet (I do know to kill the yeast first when the time comes)
- I have citric acid in the house, but am not sure when to add that or whether to add it (for flavor). Wouldn't that just make it more sour?

Many thanks to anyone who had the patience to read all of that.

 

[Squatchy]

Hi and welcome.

You added DAP. You can use it, but it's not preferred. In most people's estimation, it is not organic and pushes the ferment too fast. You didn't tell us how much. And so between the fact, you are feeding it DAP and, we don't know how much, that should lead to your answer. You also didn't mention your starting SG. You should always measure that for sure. Your temps are not too high. You can quickly ferment under the listed temp and still do just fine once you learn how to treat your yeast optimally. ( you are not doing that yet_)

You can add the points of ABV based on your honey addition together, which will be close enough.

Never add bicarbonate unless your ferment stops and you have measured things to know where you are. That's probably thrown off your pH enough to mess with your flavor profile.

Adding more honey later will never make you have a higher ABV. Old myth. In fact. It stresses out the yeast when you have large variable swings, especially with gravity and temps.

I would wait a few more days. Add 1/2 tsp of sulfites and then put it outside for a few days, and a ton of the gunk will drop out. Rack it, then. Wait for 4-6 months and then rack again. ( Maybe sooner if you have a lot of lees show up. It depends on how long you let it cold crash). Once it's clear, you can add honey to your desired taste. The reason I say add it then is you are new. And you will be better able to have a good idea where your Mead is heading once it's aged a little while. Especially since you have fusel alcohols that will interfere with your ability as well.

I would have used the entire pouch of yeast rather than only using the 2 grams. You can never use too much yeast if you treat them well.

This is the best info available when talking about walking through the entire process of making mead you can find. https://gotmead.com/blog/gotmead-live/9-5-17-ryan-carlson-modern-mead-making-yeast/

 

[jjhodge3]

Adding more honey later will never make you have a higher ABV. Old myth. In fact. It stresses out the yeast when you have large variable swings, especially with gravity and temps.

ok I’ll bite— this seems counter intuitive if the sg rises and falls again, how is there not more alcohol? I have had meads at 999 and added a fruit and i perceived more alcohol than in original batch.

 

[mathuin]

ok I’ll bite— this seems counter intuitive if the sg rises and falls again, how is there not more alcohol? I have had meads at 999 and added a fruit and i perceived more alcohol than in original batch.

Imagine for the moment a system where there exists water, yeast, and sufficient honey to reach an ABV that terminates the majority of the yeast. The yeast convert honey into alcohol until the alcohol reaches a level that’s toxic for enough of the yeast that fermentation slows down to a crawl. Now you add honey to the mixture. What happens?

The alcohol-by-volume drops due to the volume of the added honey, to be sure. The yeast then convert more honey into alcohol until the ABV returns to the toxic level. The ABV isn’t really _higher_, but any honey the yeast didn’t convert is still around to provide flavor and aroma. Also, some of the yeast by-products will contribute to the perception of alcohol that you describe.

The specific gravity will not fall below the previous value, not far enough to make a difference. That’s my experience and opinion — but I’d love to hear from others with different experiences. Am I wrong?

 

[rb2112br]

Imagine for the moment a system where there exists water, yeast, and sufficient honey to reach an ABV that terminates the majority of the yeast. The yeast convert honey into alcohol until the alcohol reaches a level that’s toxic for enough of the yeast that fermentation slows down to a crawl. Now you add honey to the mixture. What happens?

The alcohol-by-volume drops due to the volume of the added honey, to be sure. The yeast then convert more honey into alcohol until the ABV returns to the toxic level. The ABV isn’t really _higher_, but any honey the yeast didn’t convert is still around to provide flavor and aroma. Also, some of the yeast by-products will contribute to the perception of alcohol that you describe.

The specific gravity will not fall below the previous value, not far enough to make a difference. That’s my experience and opinion — but I’d love to hear from others with different experiences. Am I wrong?

That would be true if you start with enough honey to reach the max ABV that the yeast can tolerate. It would either ferment dry or stop when the ABV gets to high for the yeast to handle, but what if you use a yeast with an ABV tolerance level around 18-19% and you start off with just enough honey to get to 12-14%? Before the fermentation is done, you add more honey that will increase the ABV to 15-16%, then repeat the step feeding until you get to 18-19% (assuming that's what you were shooting for).

I have never done step feeding, but have considered trying it to achieve a higher ABV mead. I once tried to make a 19% mead once by adding all of the honey upfront. It stalled at about 13.5% and was extremely sweet. I tried most of the steps to restart a stuck fermentation, but nothing worked. Even though it was very sweet, I didn't let it go to waste. I used it to blend with some dry meads that I have made.

 

[mathuin]

You make an excellent point that the system I describe breaks down when high ABV values are desired.

If I were shooting for something like 18-19%, I definitely wouldn’t put all the honey in at the start. The osmotic pressure on the yeast at pitch time would be too high. Step feeding is definitely the right way to go, described here by Michael Wilcox:

Please don’t look at the original gravity, mix up something with 200+ gravity points, and toss in some yeast. It’s not going to ferment, or at least not well. These big meads generally start with a 1:2 honey-to-water ratio, with the rest of the honey added during or after fermentation. Do the math and you realize that for Poltorak, you’re only starting with one quarter of the honey in the fermenter, with three quarters added later. Step feeding is a good idea, and I always add some honey to big meads in this manner. Adequately prepping your yeast for a monumental task is essential and can be a two-day process of slowly introducing the must to the rehydrated starter—don’t rush it. Healthy yeast is critical.

The only other way I can think to get an 18+% ABV mead reliably would be to make a 14% ABV mead and then remove some of the water. I cannot recommend that, of course, in any jurisdiction such as the US that forbids distillation without the appropriate licenses, permits, and approvals required.

 

[Squatchy]

ok I’ll bite— this seems counter intuitive if the sg rises and falls again, how is there not more alcohol? I have had meads at 999 and added a fruit and i perceived more alcohol than in original batch.

Hi

A misunderstanding.

Some people have been taught if you continue to add more honey to a fermentation that, you can get your yeast to eat more honey resulting in a higher total ABV than if it was all added upfront. Till not sure if this makes sense.

The same batch of yeast won't only go to 16% ABV, if all the honey is added up front and it taps out there. It wouldn't be magically able to make it to 18,19,20 if the same batch had smaller honey adds added along the way.

 

[jjhodge3]

ok, it makes sense I must have had a more tolerant yeast that pushed up ABV after adding pineapple in my particular example. Mesquite honey fermented dry did me no favors until a little pineapple.
thanks for all the responses.