First go at mead making... advice?

[Golddiggie]

Alright, I've already posted some on some other threads, as well as have a couple going... All comments (so far) have been very helpful and encouraging...

Now, I've picked up my ingredients, as well as additional hardware, and the honey I'll be using (yikes that adds up FAST )... Running through the Mead Calculator to figure out how much honey to use in the must gives me the following amounts (aiming for the limits of the yeast)...

Honey is a regional wild flower from an apiary that's just a couple of hours away.

Batch #1:
5 gallon glass carboy
EC-1118 yeast
20 pounds honey
no additional flavor items/elements

Batch #2:
3 gallon glass carboy
D47 yeast
8 pounds honey
3 pounds blackberries (just picked up, couldn't afford to buy more at $5/6 ounce package)
Thinking of adding the berries at the start, during primary fermentation... Looking for a more subtle blackberry flavor, not a 2x4 to the back of the head... Thoughts?

Batch #3:
3 gallon glass carboy
EC-1118 yeast
12 pounds honey
Once fermentation has completed, rack onto toasted black cherry chunks/chips. Thinking of going for a medium toast of the wood. Something I'll have to do myself.
Potential add: 6 ounces dried cherries once fermentation has stopped.
Thoughts?

Interested in any advice on the above batches. Planning on starting all three starting tomorrow (11/24)... If I run out of time, I'll leave batch #3 until Friday. Also thinking that I'll get wild flower honey from a more local apiary for back-sweetening as needed. Also picked up some Wyeast nutrient blend, as per the man at the brewing supply shop... It's what he uses in his mead, so I'm fairly sure it will work well. Total amount is 1.5 ounces, or 42.5g... The food is dated from September 16, 2010 so still pretty 'fresh'...

 

[huntfishtrap]

Looks pretty good to me. I would definitely primary in an open bucket covered with a sanitized tea towel.

Good Luck

Paul

 

[Golddiggie]

Don't have buckets large enough, or enough of them to do that... Picked up some length of large diameter hose (from the brewing supply shop, so it's not crap) to send into a small bucket/pail for overflow... Or to prevent blow-over (that's what I believe it's called)... Will have to find out (call them tomorrow) to find out if I place the other end into sanitizing fluid, or start with it just in the sanitized pail... Little fuzzy on that part and won't start the batches until I know...

I plan on going back for additional carboys, of the correct sizes (or same sizes) in a month (or so) when the batches are ready for their first racking... Then I'll have the carboys needed to rack as often as needed to get the batches to clear up properly...

Any thoughts on using the dried cherries in #3? Will the amount of blackberries I'm using in #2 be enough to give enough flavor so you'll recognize it? Don't mind if it takes someone a couple of seconds to have the light go on, just don't want them to question what's in it...

 

[huntfishtrap]

I read this post before your other one where you explained that you were using the carboys and tubes for overflow. I don't think you have to worry about sanitizing your overflow bucket. I've never used that method, but I'm pretty sure you can use plain water with that method. Sorry I don't have any experience with mellomels yet. But I'm sure someone will weigh in on that for you.

Paul

 

[Golddiggie]

I plan on using at least filtered wated in the bucket. Figure enough to at least have the hose ends submerged... Since I'll have three carboys going to the one bucket/pail, I'll be using gaffer's tape to secure them to the bucket. I'm thinking of having them circle the pail, with enough space for me to safely get at it if needed... I'll probably place the lid over the pail, maybe even cutting notches so that I can secure it better (to prevent things from falling in)...

Hoping that these batches will be well on their way to aging before end of spring is upon us... So end of April or early May... Would love it if they were good to drink come June 1st (b-day and all that good stuff)... If not, no real worries, I'll just brew a beer to have ready to drink in time for that.

I can only imagine the reaction I'll get from my sister, mother, and other family members when they find out I'm brewing at home... ;D

 

[akueck]

It's not a bad idea to use sanitizer in your blowoff bucket. If you do or don't, either way, keep an eye on the bucket and change the water if stuff starts to get gunky in there.

6 oz of cherries in 3 gallons will probably be barely perceptible as a flavor. Might add some nice pale color though. 1 lb/gal of the berries will definitely not be a "smack in the head" kind of flavor, it will be very much on the light end of the spectrum. 2-3 lb/gal is typical for a "normal" amount of fruit character. Some recipes use upward of 6 lb/gal. (Free run juice from grapes is about 15-20 lb/gal, for reference.)

I would not use fruit in a carboy if there is not a significant amount of headspace (as in several gallons of empty air). Fruit will form a floating cap, which is very good at clogging the neck of narrow containers. It can build up pressure and shoot purple bits all over the room, to surprising distances and some unreachable places (trust me...).

 

[huntfishtrap]

I don't know if you need to worry about things falling in. You maybe cleaning it frequently. Check Youtube for blow off tube. You will find a lot of examples. They mostly pertain to beer, but mead can foam as much.

PS, I should correct myself - some did refer to using sanitizer in the bucket.

Edit: akueck types faster than me!

 

[AToE]

Lots of good advice already, if you're willing to be talked out of the EC1118 I'd recommend changing to something with a 14% tolerance, just for the reason that you're looking at a much longer aging period on higher ABV and EC1118 isn't always the tastiest (not that it's terrible or anything though). If you're set on going towards 17% or 18% then you're looking good though.

Make sure to read up on your nutrient additions and aeration. Especially if you're wanting to go high ABV those will be essential.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thinking that I'll make a bag out of cheesecloth (sanitized of course) to place the berries into before placing into the carboy... Or would I be better off freezing them and then adding during one of the rackings after fermentation has completed? Thinking of seeing if I can use the bottling bucket included with my first 'kit' to house the blow-off bucket... Could cover that with a towel to prevent any 'accidents' from happening...

Did a little digging in the kitchen... I have a few items that I can sanitize and use to get the little blackberries away from the carboy neck as needed... I'm using the 5 and 3 gallon sized units and really cannot afford to go back and get different ones right now.

I could get more berries once the fermentation has completed and add them then. Either all at once, or in two stages...

Was hoping that the dried cherries would add a bit more to the 3 gal batch, due to the fact that they are dried/concentrated... I could get some more to add later, or just leave them out of this batch and figure out something else to do with them... Thinking I'll just use the wood in that batch to see what it gives to the mead. Especially since it will be pretty much identical to the 5 gal batch. Mead Calculator indicated the gravity numbers would be the same between those two batches (helping see the difference the wood makes)...

So I guess the real questions left are: When, and how, do I use the blackberries here? How much impact will they really give? Should I plan to add more once fermentation has completed, getting closer to the 2lb/gallon ratio?

I realize a lot of that is going to be left up to me... I just want to make sure I'm not making any poor decisions, or walking into easily avoidable errors...

I did just check, the bucket (for the blow-off) is a 2 gallon... I'll plan to place a little sanitizing solution in the bottom (perhaps 1/2 gallon worth), with the tube ends resting in that. The bucket and tubing is really more so that I can make the full batch sizes in the carboys...

Oh, and I'm pretty sure there will be a few inches of air in the carboy, before the neck, for head-room... I'll test with water before starting the batches... I like to place level lines on the carboys so that I know, for certain, when they are at the target level...

 

[Golddiggie]

AToE, I already have the yeast here, and not really wanting to make another trip to get something else right now... I am looking for a higher kick in the batches using the EC-1118 yeast, which is why I went with it... The D47 yeast, in the melomel is so that it will have a little lower kick... Plus, the fruit should give it something extra for flavor (once I get that figured out/dialed-in)...

Got nutrients, and re-read the pages (on the regular site) about using them... Not sure if I should go with the ratio listed on the nutrient (Wyeast) since it's 1/2 tsp per 5 gallon batch... Also not sure if that will be enough for the entire batch, or if that's what I should add at a time... I believe it's calling out strength for beer brewing, so I'll probably end up using the 1/2 tsp initially, then when it needs more... I can already see needing to use the hydrometer more often on these batches...

Now I 'need to' check and see how high 3 gallons really is on the 3 gallon carboy... I might end up filling to a lower level, to ensure less chance of bad things happening...

 

[AToE]

Ok, just making sure!

 

[Golddiggie]

Aye... I've been cramming in (into my head) as much good info from this site (at large) as possible over the past few/several days to make sure I'm not going to F it up...

I did a test on the 3 gallon carboy... The 3 gallon line (now marked) is just after the bottle starts to taper up towards the opening. Still almost full diameter, just a hair smaller. I'll mark the second carboy to the same level before I go to use it... I'll do the same test for the 5 gallon carboy before I start in the morning. Better to check and know than have to guess where the level is...

Thinking about contacting Wyeast before I start tomorrow to find out how much, and how often, I'll need to use the nutrient... Actually, filling out the online form now, so that it will (hopefully) generate some activity before too far into tomorrow... I'll also call the shop where I got it all and get an answer from them...

 

[akueck]

The little top portion of the carboy is not enough headspace when using fruit. It will float, it will jam the neck, it will be a mess. Start that mead in the 5 gal carboy and rack off the fruit after a week. It puts your larger batch behind schedule by a week, but results in much less cleanup.

 

[Golddiggie]

How about using the mesh bag, with ceramic pie weights in it, to contain the fruit? I could still pull the fruit bag out after a week, or so, if that's the best method...

Would I get the same results if I waited until the fermentation is basically completed and add the fruit then? I can freeze these buggers now, if it's going to be a better idea to add them later...

As an alternative, how about using my 16 quart pot for the fruit batch, with a sanitized towel covering it? Just means that I'd make the 5 gal batch first, and the melomel batch after that one (I can use one of my 8 quart pots for the other 3 gallon batch)... I do have the 6+ gallon bottling bucket that came with my first kit that I could plug the hole (where you attach the spigot) and use that. Just afraid of having that much free space above the must mix...

Also, planning on heating the honey up to only 145-150F for these batches... Not going to boil them...

 

[akueck]

Extra headspace during primary is of little concern, the must outgasses CO2 to purge the space. You can ferment 1 gallon in a 10 gallon container, no problem. Not enough headspace is a concern, especially when flying purple bits are a possibility. After primary is done is when you need to worry about minimizing (eliminating) air contact.

Using a large stockpot for a few days, maybe a little longer, while the fruit is in should be fine. Same as a bucket, only metal. Most fruits have done their thing in 3-5 days.

 

[Golddiggie]

akueck, I think I'll just do that then... The 16 quart (stainless steel) pot holding the melomel must for ~5 days (would 7-10 be a bad thing?)... Thinking of giving the berries a light mashing before adding them... Will see how much the berries are, volume wise, once I have them ready... If it's looking tight, then I'll use the big bucket... Just need to seal and sanitize it before using it... No lid right now, so I'll have to use the towel method there...

I did just read, on another site, that they use 3tsp of yeast nutrient per 3 gallon batch... Does that sound about right? If so, then I'll run a little short with what I have now... That comes out to 13.2 grams per 3 gallon batch, and 26.4 grams for the 5 gallon batch totaling 48.4 grams... The nutrient I picked up is only 42.5 grams... Of course, that's assuming their nutrient is the same weight as what I have... hmmmmm

I have sent off an email to Wyeast asking about using their product in this method... Hope that they reply back soon (tomorrow)... I could add 1tsp (4.4 grams) to the 3 gallon batches, and about 7 grams to the 5 gallon batch to start... Just don't want to use too much, unless that won't cause anything bad.

Just a little more info gathering before I'll be ready to begin... Should still be on target to start everything tomorrow... ;D

Appreciate the advise/comments so far...

 

[akueck]

Longer fruit contact starts to pull out more of the bitter tannins. Not necessarily bad, but usually you want to get it off the fruit once you've extracted what you need and before you pick up anything you don't really want. 7 days is probably fine, 10 might be a little long. Taste it and see how it's coming, look a the fruit and see if anything is left, and you can decide if you're ready to move it off the fruit solids.

Assuming the Wyeast nutrient is mostly similar to FermaidK, then 1 g/gal gives you about 25 ppm of nitrogen. 4 g/gal is then ~100 ppm, which is probably the minimum you want to add. If you can pick up some DAP (diammonium phosphate) it will give you twice as much nitrogen per gram and you can add 2-3 g/gal of the Wyeast stuff and 2-3 g/gal of DAP to bring you to 150-200 ppm of nitrogen.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm going to assume that only brewing supply places carry diammonium phosphate... Right? Sucks that I'll need to schlep out to the store again for that...

Should I add the nutrients in stages, or all at the start??

Just re-re-read the section from the main site...

"Dosage:

DAP - 1/4 tsp per Gallon. For a 5 gallon batch, dose the Must at a rate of 1/2 tsp a day for the first three days while aerating. That way the DAP is mixed in and the Must aerated at the same time. 2 teaspoons per five gallon batch is plenty if a single dose is being made before pitching the yeast.

Fermaid K - 1 gram (1/4 tsp) per gallon of Fermaid K at 1/3 sugar break.

Use both Fermaid K and DAP before adding the yeast, especially in lower color honeys. Initially, the nitrogen in DAP is adsorbed very readily. As the fermentation progresses, use Fermaid K and supplement with yeast hulls. The nitrogen from the amino acids (in the Fermaid K) is absorbed more easily further along in the fermentation than from ammonia salts (DAP).

Note that some manufacturers make products that require slightly different dosage amounts, so it is important to read the instructions carefully. Wyeast, for example, have a yeast nutrient that instructs the brewer to use only 1 tsp. for 5 gallons.

Warning – Do not use too much of either or you risk changing the flavor of the Mead and creating compounds that may spoil your batch."

BTW, I don't really mind if the fermentation process runs for a couple of months... I'd rather have a long fermentation time, getting clean, good flavors and characteristics than rush it along with additives... I had already set myself to knowing it's going to be about a year before it could be ready for drinking. I was just looking to start aging it before around June (2011)...

 

[YogiBearMead726]

BTW, I don't really mind if the fermentation process runs for a couple of months... I'd rather have a long fermentation time, getting clean, good flavors and characteristics than rush it along with additives... I had already set myself to knowing it's going to be about a year before it could be ready for drinking. I was just looking to start aging it before around June (2011)...

I think you'll find that a fermentation that drags on for months doesn't produce "clean, good flavors"...in fact, I'm willing to bet the opposite. A healthy fermentation=a healthy flavor/aroma profile. The concept that mead takes months to ferment comes from a time when there were no nutrients to add, and you were pretty much stuck waiting that long anyway.

I'm willing to bet that a mead that finishes in a week or two will taste better than one that takes months to finish if you had identical musts and tried them side by side at the one year mark. If your yeast aren't getting the nutrients they need, they are more likely to make off flavors and aromas, some of which may not disappear with age.

So...I'd shoot for quicker, healthier fermentations. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[Medsen Fey]

As Akueck points out, the Wyeast nutrient should work, but even using 1 tsp per gallon is light. The directions for most nutrient are based on wine musts. The Wyeast is based on beer wort. Both of those have much higher amounts of nitrogen and other nutrients than do honey musts. You are being given some good advice here, and I would suggest that you heed it. Undernourished yeast can produce a lot of off odors and flavors, and can take forever to ferment.

I don't put fruit in carboys anymore. It can make a fine mess, and have you literally mopping the ceiling, and then it is a PITA to clean out. Putting fruit in a bag into a carboy also tend to be messy.

If you make 18% ABV batches, they probably won't be very pleasant to drink next summer. You'll need at least another year or two unless you wind up making them sweet.

3 pounds of blackberries in a 3 gallon batch is only going to give you a very light hint of berry. I would add them all to secondary to maximize their impact, or it may be too subtle to appreciate.

When setting up your batches to compare the wood vs. no wood, it will make the comparison more meaningful if you prepare the batches the same, starting with the same gravity. You do have your hydrometer right?

Medsen