First post, couple of questions, and HI! :)

[RD52]

Howdy all, first post.

20-odd years ago I made a few batches of mead. Some good, some just ok. However, I forget many of the details. So while this isn't technically my first batch I'm close to a newbie.

Three weeks ago I put in a one gallon batch. 2.5#s of honey and 40 ozs. of raw apple juice. Apple juice was mostly as a yeast nutrient, I had good luck with that in one of the old batches. Didn't measure OG, but assume it's about what I'd get from 3#s of honey. About 1.10? Some kind of champagne yeast, I forgot to write it down. Yes, I know that was stupid.

It's been going pretty well so far. Started bubbling nicely, one every 5-6 seconds for a week, slowing down gradually to the current rate of one every 20-25 seconds. Not clearing at all, but I didn't expect it to at this point.
Last weekend (2 week mark) measured the SG, it was down to 1.03. Had a small sample, still kind of sweet, but tasted great. Figuring that in 2 weeks I'll rack it to a secondary.

What bubble rate should I bottle at? 1 every X minutes? Or wait until there's no discernable activity? I'll add a tablespoon or so of corn sugar at bottling since I want it to be a little carbonated, but definitely don't want any bottle bombs.

Any other thoughts/tips?

Thanks!

 

[Valcarion]

First post, couple of questions, and HI!

Howdy all, first post.

20-odd years ago I made a few batches of mead. Some good, some just ok. However, I forget many of the details. So while this isn't technically my first batch I'm close to a newbie.

Three weeks ago I put in a one gallon batch. 2.5#s of honey and 40 ozs. of raw apple juice. Apple juice was mostly as a yeast nutrient, I had good luck with that in one of the old batches. Didn't measure OG, but assume it's about what I'd get from 3#s of honey. About 1.10? Some kind of champagne yeast, I forgot to write it down. Yes, I know that was stupid.

It's been going pretty well so far. Started bubbling nicely, one every 5-6 seconds for a week, slowing down gradually to the current rate of one every 20-25 seconds. Not clearing at all, but I didn't expect it to at this point.
Last weekend (2 week mark) measured the SG, it was down to 1.03. Had a small sample, still kind of sweet, but tasted great. Figuring that in 2 weeks I'll rack it to a secondary.

What bubble rate should I bottle at? 1 every X minutes? Or wait until there's no discernable activity? I'll add a tablespoon or so of corn sugar at bottling since I want it to be a little carbonated, but definitely don't want any bottle bombs.

Any other thoughts/tips?

Thanks!

I’m definitely a NewBee, but here’s my two cents:

Bubble rate has no value, other than to look cool while it’s fermenting. So many factors play into that, including how well the seal of your airlock is. Gravity is key. Generally the consensus here is to run your mead bone dry (1.000-0.996), and then stabilize with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite, and finally backsweeten to taste. After all that, then you can either age in your secondary until cleared or let it clear in the bottles, but most folks here seem to use a fining agent when they’re happy with the taste and ready to bottle.

I would be throughly sure fermentation has stopped, you’ve stabilized properly, and it’s cleared before carbonating. Blowing up glass es no bueno

It sounds to me like you’ve made a Cyser with all that Apple juice. Yum!

Also, the vets here will tell you to post your recipe and procedure before you start next time so they can help you fine tune it, and since you’re back after 20 years, you should go listen to the GotMead podcasts starting in September 2017 “Making Modern Mead”. Ryan (Squatchy here on the forums) went thru the entire process of making the best mead possible with modern science, and it’s all free to learn and listen to on the podcast. It’s a lot of info, but I guarantee you’ll be miles ahead of where you are right now after listening.

Ok, now here come the vets to give you exact advice cheers, and welcome to the forum!

EDIT: oh and go use the mead calculator on the website to figure your rough starting gravity since you didn’t measure. You can put honey and apple juice in the calculator and figure out where you started to get a rough abv when it’s finished. Really good resource!

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[Squatchy]

Good job Valcarion. You are catching on my friend. RD52 want to carb naturally. So this is a bit different. ANd not something I really recommend. Unless you are pretty comfortable with the entire process. Usually, I feel if someone is asking they are probably not ready to do this.
So RD52. Bubbles are worthless for anything when it comes to understanding where the mead making process. Gravity readings are the only true way to know what's up. You need to either run your batch to bone dry before you add your priming honey. Or force carb your mead into a keg with CO2. I wouldn't even try to carb naturally unless you have bottles made for this. And then you need to use the wire cages once you have corked it. Otherwise you are really stepping out into a place that you or others could get hurt. The amount of honey you add would vary based on the size of your bottles and how much you want it to bubble. Don't take the chance to think you can pick a certain gravity on the way down and cork it. That is in now way going to give you and idea of how much CO2 will be made.

 

[RD52]

Thanks guys.

I also made beer way back when, so figured that the carbonation process should be similar. Wait until fermentation is complete, add about 1 tbsp of corn sugar to the gallon of mead, and then bottle. I've got some swing top beer bottles that should be fine. Just looking for a little bit of carbonation, nothing like a champagne.

It's kind of funny how serious and scientific mead making has gotten since I've been away. Back then the web didn't hardly exist, might have been a forum on CompuServe, don't remember for sure. Definitely wasn't this kind of info available.

 

[Valcarion]

Thanks guys.

I also made beer way back when, so figured that the carbonation process should be similar. Wait until fermentation is complete, add about 1 tbsp of corn sugar to the gallon of mead, and then bottle. I've got some swing top beer bottles that should be fine. Just looking for a little bit of carbonation, nothing like a champagne.

It's kind of funny how serious and scientific mead making has gotten since I've been away. Back then the web didn't hardly exist, might have been a forum on CompuServe, don't remember for sure. Definitely wasn't this kind of info available.

If your yeast hasn’t reached its alcohol tolerance and given up when fermentation stops, adding sugar will definitely work the way you intend, just be careful. But if your yeast is quite drunk and then you add sugar you’re just going to be adding sugar, which may or may not be good for your mead. Or at least thats how I understand it.

Just food for thought!

And yeah, it’s gotten as in depth as winemaking, because that’s essentially what it is. I promise the podcast is worth a listen. People are making insanely good mead in a fraction of the time it used to, with reliable consistency.


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[RD52]

If your yeast hasn’t reached its alcohol tolerance and given up when fermentation stops, adding sugar will definitely work the way you intend, just be careful. But if your yeast is quite drunk and then you add sugar you’re just going to be adding sugar, which may or may not be good for your mead. Or at least thats how I understand it.

Just food for thought!

And yeah, it’s gotten as in depth as winemaking, because that’s essentially what it is. I promise the podcast is worth a listen. People are making insanely good mead in a fraction of the time it used to, with reliable consistency.

From what I've read (and what the nice lady at the brew supply shop said) with the amount of honey and apple juice I put in the yeast should have no problem fermenting all the sugar. The only thing that concerns me is knowing, for certain, that the yeast are done with the sugar I started with so that when I add the carbonation sugar that's all that there is.

I'm an engineer, so I get plenty of formulas and data analysis and scientific exactitude at work, trying to keep the hobbies fairly simple.

 

[Toxxyc]

If your yeast hasn’t reached its alcohol tolerance and given up when fermentation stops, adding sugar will definitely work the way you intend, just be careful. But if your yeast is quite drunk and then you add sugar you’re just going to be adding sugar, which may or may not be good for your mead. Or at least thats how I understand it.

Nah you're spot on. You get simple solutions like carbonation drops from brands like Mangrove Jacks or Coopers for cheap-cheap, and it takes all the guessing out of it. They're generally around 3.5g of dextrose (corn sugar) per "tablet", and you can buy 60 tablets for around $2. Their premise is really simple - the amount of fermentable sugars they provide is enough to carbonate one 340ml bottle of beer per tablet. I've stretched that to 440ml bottles without problems - my beer is perfectly carbonated. They're VERY easy to use - literally place one tablet (or drop, like they call them) in a bottle (or two, if your bottles are bigger, but read the instructions) and fill it. Cap it and set it aside for a week or two while it carbonates and it's done (barring aging).

The important thing to note and to make dead sure of is that your mead must be fermented completely dry, without any residual sugars and without the yeast having reached it's alcohol tolerance. Any residual sugars will ferment in the bottle and you will end up with bottle bombs.

Now, this also means that you will end up with a dry mead in the bottle, much like sparkling wines, and if you want a sweet mead I would recommend either backsweetening with a non-fermentable sugar or artificial sweeteners. Lactose is a natural sugar and not fermentable by normal brewers yeast, but check your specific strain because I'm not sure if it differs between strains. Artificial sweeteners to consider are the obvious ones, like Xylitol, Stevia and Saccharin. Read up on the side effects of all of these and make your decisions based on these.

 

[RD52]

Progress report!

Checked the SG and did a taste test today, day 25. SG was right at 1.00. Still have noticeable activity, getting a bubble through the airlock about once per minute. The wife and I both tried a small sample. She looked up at me with a big smile and went "Wow", so I think I'm doing ok. Not as sweet as at the check at the 2 week mark when the SG was 1.03, but not bone dry dry either. Probably rack it in 9-10 days and check things then.
Very happy so far.

 

[Squatchy]

Progress report!

Checked the SG and did a taste test today, day 25. SG was right at 1.00. Still have noticeable activity, getting a bubble through the airlock about once per minute. The wife and I both tried a small sample. She looked up at me with a big smile and went "Wow", so I think I'm doing ok. Not as sweet as at the check at the 2 week mark when the SG was 1.03, but not bone dry dry either. Probably rack it in 9-10 days and check things then.
Very happy so far.

That's great. I like to have mead makers taste their stuff all along the way. I feel, by doing this you get a good idea of the transformation. So if your hydrometer is at 1.000. You are indeed bone dry. I hope you know for sure how much sugar to add to get the correct atmosphere for your bottling. I hope you use the correct type of bottles as well.

 

[Toxxyc]

That's great. I like to have mead makers taste their stuff all along the way. I feel, by doing this you get a good idea of the transformation. So if your hydrometer is at 1.000. You are indeed bone dry. I hope you know for sure how much sugar to add to get the correct atmosphere for your bottling. I hope you use the correct type of bottles as well.

I may be wrong here (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but 1.000 doesn't necessarily mean it's bone dry. Alcohol is less dense than water, and significantly so. Pure ethanol has a density of 0.7893, so if your mead is, for example, 10% ABV, you'll need to work that into the comparison to determine the residual sugar content. I'm saying this because, by theory at least, a bone dry mead with no sugars left to ferment, will be less than 1.000. For the mead's gravity to be 1.000 while including alcohol, there should be enough sugar in the mead to counteract the low gravity of the alcohol and to push the gravity back up to 1.000. This needs to be kept in mind when calculations are made for bottling, or you might get bottle bombs if you plan to naturally carbonate the mead.

At least that's just my way of thinking.

 

[Squatchy]

I may be wrong here (and please correct me if I'm wrong), but 1.000 doesn't necessarily mean it's bone dry. Alcohol is less dense than water, and significantly so. Pure ethanol has a density of 0.7893, so if your mead is, for example, 10% ABV, you'll need to work that into the comparison to determine the residual sugar content. I'm saying this because, by theory at least, a bone dry mead with no sugars left to ferment, will be less than 1.000. For the mead's gravity to be 1.000 while including alcohol, there should be enough sugar in the mead to counteract the low gravity of the alcohol and to push the gravity back up to 1.000. This needs to be kept in mind when calculations are made for bottling, or you might get bottle bombs if you plan to naturally carbonate the mead.

At least that's just my way of thinking.

You are correct. Some meads do go lower. So technically it isn't truly "bone dry" But the tiniest little bit that might still go lower. Is only a fraction so small I don't think it's really computable? I would have been correct in saying "it is dry" Thanks for pointing that out to the oP.

 

[Toxxyc]

Glad I'm not way off. My main reason for posting the above stems from my current beer experience - where even a little too much sugar can easily create excessive carbonation, so-called "gushers" or even the famous bottle bombs. I'm really cautious of all these issues in carbonated beverages these days since I've read up about it a lot, and seen the damages that miscalculations have led to in some cases. Talking about bottles exploding in people's hands, exploding kegs, etc. so apart from the mess, it's actually quite dangerous. As such I also saw the reason you prefer using - ferment to bone dry and then backsweeten from there after stabilizing. That's about as safe as possible, if you ask me.

 

[RD52]

That's great. I like to have mead makers taste their stuff all along the way. I feel, by doing this you get a good idea of the transformation. So if your hydrometer is at 1.000. You are indeed bone dry. I hope you know for sure how much sugar to add to get the correct atmosphere for your bottling. I hope you use the correct type of bottles as well.

I was planning on using 1 tbsp of corn sugar in the gallon of mead when I bottle.
Definitely don't want bottle bombs, had that happen with some beer I made way back when. Helluva mess! And I am concerned about residual sugar. One of my old batches, I bottled after I was certain it had fermented out completely. Lo and behold, a couple of months later it was nicely carbonated. Tasted wonderful, so it was a happy error, but if I had been trying to carbonate it and added sugar I'm sure it would have ended badly.
Have some Grolsch swing tops that I was going to use.

 

[Squatchy]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. Can you please teach me? I have only one time made a beer at a friends house with him helping me. And even then I was making a braggot. And the only carbination I do is in forced kegging. So I have no first-hand experience in caring in the bottle. Please, if you would. Can you tell me if the little bit of points below the 1.000 mark enough to totally be the difference of a correctly made bottle carb and a bottle bomb? In other words. If you primed and bottled correctly. And did not consider the points belowe. Is than tenough to cause big problems?

 

[RD52]

LOL, do you really want to ask a guy who's produced both an unintentionally carbonated mead and a beer bottle bomb for advice on carbonation?!?!

FWIW, most of my original knowledge came from Papazian's book. I was mostly interested in beer at that time, but was intrigued by the chapter on mead that he had in the back. So that was my starting point. (all this was before the WWW)
I've forgotten much of what I read, so I poked around the HomeBrew Talk forum to find how much sugar to use to carbonate. 22g per gallon was what I saw. A tbsp is 15cc so assuming that corn sugar is a bit denser than water a level tbsp should be very close to that weight. I may use a bit less to be cautious.
The whole trick is to be certain that all the sugar has indeed fermented out before you add more. That's relatively easy with beer, it's so nutrient rich that it ferments very vigorously, and because the ABV is generally relatively low it's pretty obvious when the yeast run out of sugar. The bubble rate in the airlock decrease dramatically over just a day or two.
I'm uncertain of how to be sure with mead. Combination of FG being what I'd expect from complete fermentation of the sugar, and no activity in the airlock is what I figuring I'll use, we'll see how that all works out.

 

[Toxxyc]

If you guys want me to explain my process (also very new, but so far very effective), just shout. I'll gladly assist, including my explanation when it comes to bottle conditioning/carbonation.

 

[RD52]

If you guys want me to explain my process (also very new, but so far very effective), just shout. I'll gladly assist, including my explanation when it comes to bottle conditioning/carbonation.

I'd be interested in hearing about your process and results.

 

[Toxxyc]

OK so in my short experience with brewing beer, this is what I have come to, in an "as short as possible" summary:

1. You get two types of carbonation: a. Forced carbonation and b, natural carbonation.
a. Forced carbonation is simple. After brewing or fermenting, you stabilize (if needed), rack the drink into a keg, fit a regulator and place it under CO2 pressure. The pressure forces CO2 into the drink and carbonates it.
Pros: No risk of bottle bombs, it's very quick to carbonate (you can carbonate in around 30 minutes if you wish) and you can adjust the amount of carbonation "on the fly". You can also easily stabilize with a lot of residual sugar left in the drink to result in a really sweet, carbonated beverage.
Cons: Expensive equipment is needed and, generally, if it's a rushed job you can end up with sub-par bubbles (not the fine bubbles you want).

b. Natural carbonation is slightly more complicated. After brewing, you bottle the drink with some additional sugars based on the level of carbonation you wish to achieve. Usually drinks are fermented dry and sugar is added into the bottles you're bottling into. In the bottle the suspended yeast will go through an additional fermentation, eat the sugars you added and create CO2. Because this CO2 can't escape (bottles or kegs are sealed), you carbonate the drink as such.

Now, the most important thing to remember with carbonating beverages is that if you have too much sugars and yeast that can eat it, you will end up with explosions. Kegs (like corny kegs) generally have blow-off valves, but not all kegs do and bottles certainly don't. Also, just because it takes 3.5g of sugar to carbonate a 350ml bottle of mead doesn't mean it's going to take 70g of sugar to carbonate a 7l keg. Use the online calculators if you're going to use kegs - I only have experience with bottles!

To naturally carbonate mead in bottles I would recommend the following:

1. Start off with a dry mead, since sweet meads will be problematic. Trust me, they will, with all that residual sugar. If you are intent on not bottling a dry mead, consider sweetening your mead with non-fermentable sugars or artificial sweeteners. Lactose is a great choice in beers, but I have no idea how it'll work in meads.

2. Ferment your mead until completely dry, and DO NOT STABILIZE. If you stabilize, you will deactivate the yeast and it won't carbonate.

3. Buy yourself some carbonation drops. They're damn cheap and you can do around 60 x 350ml or 30 x 750ml bottles with a single bag. Shop around, you should be able to get them for a lot less than $7.55 a bag like here: https://www.amazon.com/Coopers-Home-Brewing-Carbonation-Drops/dp/B003E5ZYB8 I paid R35 for my last bags (per bag), and that translates to just under $3 a bag, and they were imports. Brands like Coopers and Mangrove Jack's are popular.

4. Sterilize your bottles, and add carbonation drops as per the packet instructions. Each carbonation drop contains around 3.5g of dextrose, which is an easily fermentable sugar, and each drop is enough for about ~400ml in a sealed bottle. Generally you use one drop per 350ml bottle and two drops per 750ml bottle. Do not double up doses - your bottles will explose. Do not assume amounts, rather use online calculators.

5. Bottle your mead into the bottles using a bottling wand, it's really the easiest solution.

6. Cap and set in a dark place at room temperature for around 2 weeks. You can start opening and testing carbonation after a week, and when it's ready, you can refrigerate and enjoy. It gets better if it stands a bit longer, the bubbles get finer and the slight by-products from the yeast is reduced.

7. To enjoy, don't drink from the bottle. Keep the bottles upright and pour into a glass, being careful not to disturb the sediment at the bottom of the bottle. The sediment is healthy, but tastes sour (like yeast) and will make the mead cloudy.

I hope this helps?

 

[RD52]

Thanks!

That's pretty much the procedure I was planning on so it's good to hear a confirmation of it.

The drops are a bit more sugar/bottle than I was calculating to use, so for now I'll stick with adding sugar to the 1 gallon carboy and then bottling.

 

[Toxxyc]

Thanks!

That's pretty much the procedure I was planning on so it's good to hear a confirmation of it.

The drops are a bit more sugar/bottle than I was calculating to use, so for now I'll stick with adding sugar to the 1 gallon carboy and then bottling.

Adding sugar to the mead before bottling is called priming, and the sugar you add is called priming sugar. Bottle priming (adding a drop per bottle) uses more sugar than batch priming (adding the sugar to a carboy before bottling, but batch priming is more consistent. If you're to add the sugar to the carboy, dissolve the sugar in some boiling water before adding to avoid having to mix the mead in the carboy a lot. Pour in the sugar-syrup, mix with a big spoon just one or two turns and let it sit for half an hour or so to fully mix it up.

Enjoy, and let us know of the outcome!