First Post, First Meads

[Lumenbeing]

Hi all,
Yesterday I started my first 4 batches of mead! I had picked up Ken Schram's book, and read the first half of it, as well as reading about things like BOMM, SNA, and TOSNA. I had listened to some podcasts (GotMeadLive and Meadmakr) and generally tried to absorb as much from forums as I could before taking the plunge.
I have a buddy who brews (some pretty awesome) beer but had never done a mead who offered to help me get going. A couple of days ago, he took me to the HBS he goes to to introduce me to the guys and show me what to buy. I came in and asked for Fermaid K or O, and GoFerm and both of the guys working there had a good laugh at the newb asking about ingredients that they had never heard of. They told me (a little condescendingly) to just buy Fermax since it was all the same thing and that's what they sold. But they could not tell me what was in it. They joked about me trying to follow "mead.com" as if me doing internet research and having a plan was silly compared to their advice of "just use whatever and don't expect anything drinkable for a year or two" (the abridged version).
My beer making buddy had kind of a similar attitude about it and so I left the shop with my glass, bungs, air locks, hydrometer, yeast, DAP, potassium carbonate, and ....Fermax.
After getting home with the stuff, I re-read the posts on here about Fermaid vs Fermax and went ahead and ordered some online, but brew day was yesterday and it had not arrived. I have a newborn and rescheduling, while not impossible, was not something I wanted to wait on since my buddy was planning to come over and help.

So I took the plunge yesterday with for separate 1 gal batches

Batch#0001 (going for a Ken Shram show mead)
* Crocker Arizona Wildflower Honey 3lbs
* Lalvin 71B-1121 2.5grams rehydrate per instructions.
* OG = 1.114
Batch#0002-0004 (same starting must divided into 3rds)
* California Naked Honey 10lbs
* Water to 3 gal
* OG=1.128
* 78°F
Batch #0002 (modified) BOMM" substituting Fermax for Fermaid.
* 2.5g DAP
* 1/4 tsp Potasium Carbonate
* 2g Fermax
* 2g T-58
* Batch #0003 another modified BOMM
* 1/4 tsp DAP
* 1/2 tsp Fermax
* 1/4 Potasium Carbonate
* Pitched 1/2 smack pack (64g) Wyeast 1388
* Batch #0004 another modified BOMM
* 2.69g DAP
* 2.06g Fermax
* 1/4tsp patasium carbonate
* 64g Wyeast 1388 (1/2 smack pack)

Today all 4 batches look like they are going. Batch 1 has what looks like a beer head with tiny bubbles. I've got vodka in the airlock with a big bubble going through every 45 sec; batches 2-4 have bigger bubbles floating on top of the must, but since I'm roughly following BOMM protocol, there is nothing in the airlocks (except one that have some residual StarSan and its bubbling fast).

So my plan is to aerate batches 2-3 2x today and leave batch 1 alone.
Since I only bought 1 hydrometer, I not have a hydrometer floating in each batch.

If someone would like to offer their advice, I have a few questions.

When should I take my first sample to get a gravity reading?
Is my understanding of "show mead" off base, and I actually should have added some nutrients of some kind to batch 1? And if so, is it too late now, or could I add nutrients/energizer now or in a couple of days when the Fermaid O arrives?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Chris Chambless




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[caduseus]

1) buy fermaid on amazon
2) I wouldn't know how to follow TOSNA or TiOSNA with fermax.
3) next time buy what we recommend not what a LHBS or beer brewer says

 

[darigoni]

Welcome. As this is 9 days later, it's probably to late to do anything about this, but for future mead making.....Typically you should try and keep the fermentation around the lower end of the temperature range of the yeast.

Temperature ranges of your yeast:

T-58 = 59°-75° F

Wyeast 1388 = 65°-75° F

71B-1121 = 59-89° F

So, if you're ambient temperature is 78F then the temp in your fermentation bucket/carboys can be up to 10 degrees warmer. Do you have a basement you can put these into? There are other ways to cool the must: Fans, wrapping the bucket/carboy in a wet towel (evaporative cooling). Sounds like you need to address this issue for the future.

The trend seems to be using organic (Fermaid O) nutrients, but a lot of good mead has been made with DAP, Fermaid K (which has DAP in it) and/or Fermax. I'm still using DAP/Fermaid K and will continue to do so, until I finally run out, and then will decide if I want to go organic. The reason why Fermaid products are so well liked is for the the same reason that you experienced at the HBS, the ingredients are more well documented, unlike those of Fermax. So, use what you have, but you'll probably want to make the switch over at some point.

Yeah, people seem to get a lot of bad advice from HBS. A good place to get some equipment and (maybe) yeast, but that's about all they are good for. Start figuring out where you can locate things over the internet (Amazon).

You should have been taking hydrometer readings every day or two, especially as you are a newbee. It will give you an idea of what's going on and where you are with your fermentation.

I assume that you are fermenting in one gallon jugs? If you can't put the hydrometer in the jugs, you'll need to sanitize a tube (the tube the hydrometer came in?), make your readings and then pour the liquid back into the carboy (one of the problems with one gallon batches is the loss you can get making hydrometer measurements). Only do this if you are being careful with sanitation, as you don;t want to infect your must, but unlike beer mead is pretty resistant, especially when you have a high ABV.

dave

 

[Dadux]

SO this is a done deal by now most likely.
If you are getting fermaid O get rid of the DAP and fermax. Fermax is a mix of dap and other stuff so...you can tell your LHBS guys to f**k off. Mead is not beer or wine. Good nutrients like Fermaid O or even K go a long way. Not all the nutrient brands are the same, not at all. And using good products and protocols you can have great mead in two or three months (but you'll have to learn first a lot heh).
Edit: as dagorini said, you can use DAP and some people still do. However, most of us changed to a mix of organic and inorganic or only organic. Fermax and DAP are nearly the same, both 100% inorganic, so i dont recommend using only that, If you want to use it, at least mix Fermaid K and DAP/Fermax. However if you did not spend a lot of money on those and can spare the extra buck, going only Fermaid O or only Fermaid K will probably get you even better results.
For next time post the recipe before so we can advice. This is not too bad a batch for a new user, but can definitely be improved.
For the bomm, follow directions of the recipe. Also BOMM has an updated recipe with Fermaid O.

You can use one hydrometer for all of the batches. Buy a probete or use a tall glass where the hydrometer fits, fill it with mead and measure gravity with the hydrometer. Then put the mead back into the carboy/bucket. As long as the glass/probete is clean its ok to do so. Also clean the hydrometer after, and store it.

You can take gravity readings whenever to see how its going. After a while it will finish.

You should indeed have added nutrients to batch 1, but its probably a bit late now. You can measure SG and tell us. That batch might stall. In case the though crosses your mind, dont add energizer. Maybe some fermaid O, like a gram or two.
While you are ordering stuff online you could use a pHmeter or some pH strips (low end, 2-7pH or so will work). Some meads are very acidic, and below pH 3 its bad for the yeast.

One thing you also seem to have done bad is the temps. 78 farenheit is way too hot. We try to keep fermenting mead between 15-20ºC (and 15 is better than 20). If you dont have any place to ferment at that temps, your choices are either get a strain that does good at high temps (1388 is not one of those, fyi), cool somehow the fermentor to the desired temp (water bath, cold towels?) or wait for a more benign weather.

Im guessing T-58 is a yeast but never heard of it.
Also did you rehydrate your dry yeast? (71B is dry, and i guess T-58 too)

Well sorry for how this is organized. But i hope you understand most of it and it helps. Also seriosuly, dont listen to your LHBS guys for anything concerning meadmaking. They seem a bitch douchy if you allow me the comment. And congrats on the newborn.

 

[Lumenbeing]

So yeah, this should have posted 9 days ago. Fortunately, I've already been doing most of what's been suggested here. The 78 degrees was just the temperature of my must at the start. Ever since pitching though, the mead has been living in my basement where it's a little cooler. I bought stick on thermometers for each of the 1 gallon jugs and the temp stays around 74. I know that's not ideal, but this is Los Angeles,we are in a heat wave, and my 1937 house has no A/C.
74 seems to be within range for all the yeasts according to Darigoni, albeit the extremes top end... Hopefully I won't get too many fusels. I might try a cooler with some cool packs for next time.
I have been checking gravity every couple of days. Swirling to off-gas every day.

Here are my notes since my OP:

Day 3
* Batch 0001 - SG=1.107 added 1g (about 1/3 tsp) Fermaid O pre-dissolved in 1 cup of thieved must.
* Batch 0002 - SG=1.104
* Batch 0003 - SG=1.108
* Batch 0004 - SG=1.115

Day 5
* Batch 0002
* SG=1.078
* Added 1.2g Fermaid O
* Tastes like honey. No off flavors

Day 7
* Batch 0001
* SG=1.086
* Detecting some nice floral character. Distinguishing itself from the others.
* Added another 1g of Fermaid O.
* Batch 0002
* SG=1.071 (not to the 2nd sugar break yet but it's day 7 so....
* Added ~1.2g FermaidO
* I think I can taste some pepper
* Batch 0003
* SG=1.074 (past 1st sugar break)
* Going to stick with the same regimen, the sort of pseudo BOMM using Fermax as a sub for Fermaid K. This is the inorganic one.
* Added 1/4 tsp DAP
* Added 1/2tsp Fermax
* Batch 0004
* SG=1.080 (past 1st sugar break)
* Going to shift this of to Fermaid O because my calculations were so off on the original nutrient addition.
* Added 1.2g Fermaid O
Airlocks now filled for batches 2-4.

Day9
* Batch 3
* SG=1.056



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[Lumenbeing]

Today is day 20 for these 4 initial batches. They are all still fermenting, but the t-58 batch has slowed way down. Only dropped 4 points in the last 6 days. SG is 1.034. I really didn't know what to expect with that one because I can't find any info about it's nitrogen requirements. All I know is that it started out fermenting faster than the other three, and now it's crawling. I think it's probably about to hit its limit. By my calculations it's at ~12.3% ABV which is 73% attenuation.
It had some days where it smelled like garbage, but rousing the lees seems to have fixed that. The latest sample I took tasted peppery (a common note people get when they use it to brew beer) but not bad generally. Trying to decide whether to keep it as a trad or add some kind of fruit or (pumpkin?) spice to go with the spicy esters. Thoughts?
Oh also, I've been taking so many SG reading along the way on these that the gallon jugs are all down to around the shoulders. Should I be worried about all that headspace? It's "topping up" a thing and should I worry about it?
All four of these batches were just meant as learning experiments so I'm not worried too much about how finished product I'll have. I'd rather have the data from regular readings.



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[Dadux]

Today is day 20 for these 4 initial batches. They are all still fermenting, but the t-58 batch has slowed way down. Only dropped 4 points in the last 6 days. SG is 1.034. I really didn't know what to expect with that one because I can't find any info about it's nitrogen requirements. All I know is that it started out fermenting faster than the other three, and now it's crawling. I think it's probably about to hit its limit. By my calculations it's at ~12.3% ABV which is 73% attenuation.
It had some days where it smelled like garbage, but rousing the lees seems to have fixed that. The latest sample I took tasted peppery (a common note people get when they use it to brew beer) but not bad generally. Trying to decide whether to keep it as a trad or add some kind of fruit or (pumpkin?) spice to go with the spicy esters. Thoughts?
Oh also, I've been taking so many SG reading along the way on these that the gallon jugs are all down to around the shoulders. Should I be worried about all that headspace? It's "topping up" a thing and should I worry about it?
All four of these batches were just meant as learning experiments so I'm not worried too much about how finished product I'll have. I'd rather have the data from regular readings.



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You can return the must to the carboy after thr sg reading. Just make sure the glass/vessel you put it to read sg is clean.
What is the sg from the others?
These meads should ferment dry if taken good care of
I say this so you have a point of reference. Its normal to get stalled meads the first time

Degassing gets rid of odours like H2S (rotten egg smell)

If its on the shoulders i wouldnt worry much. Next time return the samples!

Yeah the ABV shouldbe around 13%

At 20 days i'd recommend to leave the mead for another month rousing the lees, at least, before adding anything or making any decissions.

 

[NightWolf]

If its on the shoulders i wouldnt worry much. Next time return the samples!

Thanks for answering this Dadux. I'm in the same situation. A product of over sampling my results of the progress to date Since I'm using a 2 gallon fermenter for the whole fermentation process, I've got to remember to add 6-12 oz more so that when I do rack, the 1 Gal carboy should be full.

 

[Dadux]

Thanks for answering this Dadux. I'm in the same situation. A product of over sampling my results of the progress to date Since I'm using a 2 gallon fermenter for the whole fermentation process, I've got to remember to add 6-12 oz more so that when I do rack, the 1 Gal carboy should be full.

Mead doesnt oxidize much compared to wine/beer. If you are going to bulk age top it off to prevent it. But i've left 1/4 of a bucket (high contact area) empty and left mead there for 4-6 months without change. So for short times you dont have to worry much about it.
Some people use marbles to fill it if you dont want to have too much headspace nor top it off.

 

[Lumenbeing]

Fermentis claims an attenuation of 70% for T-58. Since its past that already, you still think it should be able to keep going to dry, Dadux?


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[Dadux]

Fermentis claims an attenuation of 70% for T-58. Since its past that already, you still think it should be able to keep going to dry, Dadux?


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Sure. Attenuation in beer is not the same as mead. In mead all the sugars are fermentables. I've used beer strains always with 100% attenuation even if stated otherwise.

My understanding is that the atrenuation represent the capacity of the strain to ferment longer sugar polymers. In beer there are long and medium chain sugars. Some will ferment the low only, others will ferment some of the medium too i guess. I have no true idea of how it really works but i would guess its like this. Either way the attenuation in mead is always 100% except some honeys with unfermentables or in case you push the yeast so much it dies. In your case the yeast gave uo too early because of lack of nutrients or you because the process was not perfect (aereation degassing, other)

 

[Lumenbeing]

Okay. I thought attenuation had a direct correlation to ABV tolerance. In any case ABV tolerance with be the ultimate factor as to how far this yeast will go, right? Once there is enough ABV, the yeast cant go on regardless of SG when it hits that point, correct?


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[bernardsmith]

That's my understanding - attenuation is an issue for brewers but not wine or mead makers. We typically deal only with simple sugars and simple sugars are for all intents and purposes 100 percent fermentable. Tolerance refers to the yeast's ability to tolerate musts with higher or lower concentrations of alcohol. Ale yeasts might tolerate say 10% alcohol solutions then be expected to give up the ghost whereas some wine yeasts might be able to tolerate 15 or 16% alcohol - but a published tolerance is not law. Some cells of a yeast with a tolerance for alcohol of say 14% may keel over and die at 12% while other cells might slog on to 16% or even higher. The published tolerances along with other published specifications simply helps inform wine or mead makers which strains of yeast they might select for the purposes they have at hand. If , for example, you intended to carbonate a wine that was already at 12% ABV you might want to add some champagne yeast rather than ask a less tolerant yeast to dive into a high ABV wine right after rehydration.

 

[Dadux]

That's my understanding - attenuation is an issue for brewers but not wine or mead makers. We typically deal only with simple sugars and simple sugars are for all intents and purposes 100 percent fermentable. Tolerance refers to the yeast's ability to tolerate musts with higher or lower concentrations of alcohol. Ale yeasts might tolerate say 10% alcohol solutions then be expected to give up the ghost whereas some wine yeasts might be able to tolerate 15 or 16% alcohol - but a published tolerance is not law. Some cells of a yeast with a tolerance for alcohol of say 14% may keel over and die at 12% while other cells might slog on to 16% or even higher. The published tolerances along with other published specifications simply helps inform wine or mead makers which strains of yeast they might select for the purposes they have at hand. If , for example, you intended to carbonate a wine that was already at 12% ABV you might want to add some champagne yeast rather than ask a less tolerant yeast to dive into a high ABV wine right after rehydration.

All true but i want to highlight that actual abv yolerance is a ballpark and
1-if taken well care of, most wine yeast will push the abv tolerance at least a couple points. What bernard said its right, part of the cells will die but overall expect higher abv (up to 18-19%, from there its nearly imposible to ferment except with turbo yeast i guess)
2- regardless of what it says on beer yeast, no yeast has less tolerance than 11% or so. So the yeast can say 5% tolerance but its a lie. If well fed it will go to 11-12 or even 14%. Will it produce off flavours? It might. But will get there.

 

[caduseus]

Fermentis claims an attenuation of 70% for T-58. Since its past that already, you still think it should be able to keep going to dry, Dadux?


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Attenuation is for brewers only.
Even for braggots (mead-beer hybrids) the attenuation does not always stand up well.
Expect close to 100% attenuation with meads

 

[Lumenbeing]

Today is day 37. Here's where these are at:
Batch 1 (71B) = 1.010
Batch 2 (T58) = 1.033 (hasn't moved in 2 weeks)
Batch 3 (Wyeast 1188) = 1.023
Batch 4 (Wyeast 1188) = 1.028

At this point I think its fair to say the T58 has petered out. 1.033 is beyond even dessert mead territory, so I'm going to pitch a whole smack pack of Wyeast 1188 into it, still it in my new temperature control closet and see what happens.
Batches 1,3, and 4 are still going albeit SLOWLY.

 

[Squatchy]

You might be wise to learn how to restart a stuck fermentation. It's a better process than just repitching a different yeast with a ABV that high. It may not even get off. Go download Scotts Labs handbook 2016. In it it has a protocol to use to restart a stuck. You will have a much better chance doing it that way.

 

[Lumenbeing]

Yeah for sure. But this is only a 1 gallon experimental batch, and I have a newborn baby, so not a lot of time to mess with my mead. So not to ignore your advise. If I had more time (and more airlocks/vessels) I'd totally do it the Scott's labs recommended way. I'll keep you posted on what happens with the "just pitch it" technique.

 

[Squatchy]

So at least rehydrate your yeast in 104 tap water. At about 20-25 minutes, start adding a couple ounces of your mead every 10 minutes for as long as you have patience. Let it do it's thing over night, and then add the remainder of your mead

 

[Dadux]

So at least rehydrate your yeast in 104 tap water. At about 20-25 minutes, start adding a couple ounces of your mead every 10 minutes for as long as you have patience. Let it do it's thing over night, and then add the remainder of your mead

Agreed. If you take SOME care, it'll work. And use ec1118 if you can. Also 1.033 is not that sweet. Dessert meads are 1.050+