how much amylase powder do I use?

[akueck]

Hey all,

Poking around with the search, I've found lots of mention of amylase but no info about dosage. I find myself with some enzymes and starchy grains. Obviously I should combine them, but how?

The only directions on the package say "Use 1 tsp per 5 gallons". 5 gallons of what? Mash, wort, beer, cookies?

Here is what I plan on doing if it helps figure out what I should do:
I have 1.25 lbs of quinoa (mix of flakes and whole). I am going to toast/roast them, crush them, and cook them. Then (after cooling to ~150ºF) I want to add some amylase to reduce the starchiness. I don't want total conversion, but I would like to reduce the size of the sugar molecules so the beer won't taste like uncooked bread.

Do I:
1. Make a 1 tsp/5 gallon solution and add it to my mash?
2. Make a more dilute solution since I've only got 1.25 lbs?
3. Make a 1/5 tsp/gal solution and add it to the kettle (~3.5 gal) before the boil?

Next questions: how long to wait? what temperature to hold at? I assume these should be similar to standard brewing times & temps. Any indications otherwise? I'll try 20-30 mins at 155 and go from there unless I am counseled to do something else.

Thanks in advance!

 

[akueck]

Well, I realize a day isn't much time to get replies, but I was brewing today anyway.

I think it worked. Maybe. We'll find out in a month or so. Check out my brewlog post for details. ;D

 

[wayneb]

The dose is usually given in terms of amount per volume of wort, so that amount added to your mash tun will work out fine if you sparge to a total 5 gallon volume. The amount indicated (1 to 1.5 tsp of powdered amylase enzyme) will generally give you nearly complete conversion for most all grain (all barley) after about 30 minutes at 149F. Since you were a bit higher in temperature the conversion would occur more quickly, but since the commercial amylase enzymes are usually alpha amylase, they don't immediately convert long chain starches to simple sugars; the conversion from long starches to shorter intermediate chains happens relatively fast, but the further conversion to simpler sugars happens more slowly unless you happen to have beta amylase (from the malted grains themselves) also present in the mix. If you're unsure as to how much conversion remains to take place, you can always do the iodine test on a little sample taken from the wort in process.

That really doesn't answer your question quantitatively, nor is it in time to help directly, but at least you now have a little more background in how amylase enzyme additives will work.

How did your batch turn out? I guess I can read your brewlog, eh? ;D

 

[akueck]

Thanks Wayne, I didn't know that the powder is just the alpha stuff. Might have just as well used saliva (which was my backup plan if the LHBS was out of amylase like they were 2 weeks ago). ;D

I'm up on the alpha/beta thing and I intentionally kept the temperature high to prevent total conversion (I did add tons of extract after all). I think I made my job more difficult since I wasn't trying to generate simple sugar, which I can taste. Ah well, it's fermenting now--can't have screwed it up too badly.

 

[BBBF]

Not to highjack this thread, but I have an amylase question.

If I were to malt my own gluten free grains, could I try to get the starch conversons from that alone and if that fails, add amylase later?

 

[wayneb]

Not to highjack this thread, but I have an amylase question.

If I were to malt my own gluten free grains, could I try to get the starch conversons from that alone and if that fails, add amylase later?

The general answer is Yes. There are some additional things to know. Alpha amylase works quickest at temperatures around 149 F. It denatures pretty quickly and then stops working above about 154 F, if memory serves. It does work, although MUCH more slowly, at temperatures as low as customary room temperature. So, if you were to add it to a starchy wort at any time it would work to convert those starches continually unless or until the temperature was raised up around the 155-160 F region.

BTW, if you become a patron, you can read my exploits with amylase in a neolithic recipe. Look for my "Jiahu!" brewlog in the patrons area if/when you can join up.

 

[akueck]

There was a website I found when doing some research on gluten-free beer that talked about the process of malting and mashing buckwheat. It was something like sillyak.com or similar. I would check that out for some more info.

From what I can remember, the buckwheat had fairly low diastatic power but it should be enough to self-convert. Quinoa, which is my particular grain of choice for its nuttiness, is apparently very hard to malt due to its small size.

I was under the impression that the alpha amylase wouldn't start breaking down until about 160. Maybe I'll go look that up again.

 

[wayneb]

I was under the impression that the alpha amylase wouldn't start breaking down until about 160. Maybe I'll go look that up again.

Possibly what is causing your confusion is that naturally occurring alpha amylases in malted grains tend to denature at around 155 F, but there are some commercially available "high temp" alpha amylases extracted from fungal sources that don't start to break down under about 158 to 160 F. At least that is the claim of the manufacturers. I personally don't push things above 154 F when I'm mashing grains, whether the amylase is self-contained or added.

As always, that's my approach, FWIW. YMMV.

 

[BBBF]

There was a website I found when doing some research on gluten-free beer that talked about the process of malting and mashing buckwheat. It was something like sillyak.com or similar. I would check that out for some more info.

From what I can remember, the buckwheat had fairly low diastatic power but it should be enough to self-convert. Quinoa, which is my particular grain of choice for its nuttiness, is apparently very hard to malt due to its small size.

I was under the impression that the alpha amylase wouldn't start breaking down until about 160. Maybe I'll go look that up again.

Yeah, small grain size is something I'm concerned about because I'd like to use amaranth as my base grain and roasting buckwheat for taste and color.

 

[akueck]

Yeah, small grain size is something I'm concerned about because I'd like to use amaranth as my base grain and roasting buckwheat for taste and color.

If you can get it, the sorghum extract has been working well for me so far. A lot less work than malting your own grains, and there's no shame in using extract. The color/flavor grains don't need to be malted and you should be able to use amylase to reduce "grainy" flavors. Jury is still out on how that turned out for me, but the thief sample yesterday was promising.

The neatest flavors I've gotten with the home-roasting is the "wet" roasted grains. They come out a lot like crystal/caramel malts. The burned flakes worked really well too, but only if you want that sort of flavor. If I wind up without a job this spring maybe I'll experiment some more and see if I can come up with grains besides crystal and burnt.