Information/Definitions of Polish Meads.........

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Hmm...

That would put the O.G. of a batch of Półtorak at 1.292, if I used the mead calculator correctly. How would you get that to ferment, and if you did, what would you use it for aside from a topping for biscuits?

Very slow sipping! ;D

That gravity is about right, but the answer is you wouldn't try to start fermenting it at that gravity as it would choke the yeast. You start at a lower gravity and keep adding honey until you are there. Residual sugar of at least 300 g/L means enough for a gravity of 1.110 when finished. That's sweet!

Smarrikåka, I still don't know how the added honey doesn't ferment. If keeping it cool is part of the answer, what happens when these bottles warm up?
 
Very slow sipping! ;D

That gravity is about right, but the answer is you wouldn't try to start fermenting it at that gravity as it would choke the yeast. You start at a lower gravity and keep adding honey until you are there. Residual sugar of at least 300 g/L means enough for a gravity of 1.110 when finished. That's sweet!

Smarrikåka, I still don't know how the added honey doesn't ferment. If keeping it cool is part of the answer, what happens when these bottles warm up?

I see what you did thar!

You went around the (high S.G.) wall instead of trying to go through it :p
 
Smarrikåka, I still don't know how the added honey doesn't ferment. If keeping it cool is part of the answer, what happens when these bottles warm up?

The answer is that they probably do bottling right after the final sweetening adjustments and heat it up to 55-60 C in order to kill the yeast and stabalize it in combination with that.

I tend to notice quite a difference in the percieved dry/sweetness in different bottles of Korzenny though. And Apis specification of the residual sugar tends to be a range, instead of a set number.
 
To add to what Smarrikåka said, here is a quote from the process definition for a trójniak, in the EU application document:

During ageing it is possible to carry out operations
such as pasteurisation and filtration.

So, filtration and/or pasteurization are permitted. I suppose it is up to the meadmaker as to which one to employ. I imagine that "traditional" techniques, i.e. those going back centuries, didn't employ anything more than extended aging and re-racking.
 
The answer is that they probably do bottling right after the final sweetening adjustments and heat it up to 55-60 C in order to kill the yeast and stabalize it in combination with that.

Duhh! :sign12:

I can be just stupid at times. I read 55-60 and I'm thinking in Fahrenheit not Celsius. A temperature of 60 C will pasteurize them and no stabilizers would be needed. That makes perfect sense. Thank you!
 
Additional note - now that I've read the text for all these applications, it is interesting to note that dwojniaks and półtoraks are explicitly NOT pasteurized as part of bottling.

I find that interesting since I have detected an element of "cooked" flavor in all Polish meads I've tasted that are lower in "concentration" than dwojniak. I attributed that to the aging characteristics of meads with lower residual sugar concentrations, but in fact it might be attributable to a processing step that is different for the lower strength meads.
 
I read the [FONT=EUAlbertina+01][FONT=EUAlbertina+01]ł[/FONT][/FONT]torak info and I noticed two things. They do say that filtration and pasteurization are permitted. But as said before, pasteurization would not be needed for a mead like this, especially given the 3 years of aging required.



During aging it is possible to carry out operations such as pasteurisation and filtration. At this stage it is possible to add the remaining quantity of honey to achieve the required proportion in
[FONT=EUAlbertina+20][FONT=EUAlbertina+20]
[FONT=EUAlbertina+01][FONT=EUAlbertina+01]ł
torak[FONT=EUAlbertina+20][FONT=EUAlbertina+20][/FONT][/FONT]


Also, it also caught my eye that pó[FONT=EUAlbertina+01][FONT=EUAlbertina+01]ł[/FONT][/FONT]torak and dwójniak meads can be fortified, and it does not specify what the source of the alcohol must be (grains, grapes, fruits, honey, etc). Clearly that is another way of getting around difficult fermentation.

it is possible to correct the organoleptic and physico-chemical properties by:
[FONT=EUAlbertina+20][FONT=EUAlbertina+20]
adding honey to sweeten the mead,



[FONT=EUAlbertina+20][FONT=EUAlbertina+20][/FONT][/FONT]adding herbs and spices,



[FONT=EUAlbertina+20][FONT=EUAlbertina+20][/FONT][/FONT]adding ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin.
[/FONT]

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Ahh - I missed that fortification note. Good catch! There sure is a lot of information combined in each of these applications, and it shows that the existing BJCP definitions of mead are somewhat at odds with Polish commercial meadmaking practice and European Union definitions, at least as far as fortifying a beverage that can still legally be called "mead" is concerned. So the commercial folks in Europe have more leeway than we, as hobbyist meadmakers do -- at least those of us over here in N. America.
 
So the commercial folks in Europe have more leeway than we, as hobbyist meadmakers do -- at least those of us over here in N. America.

I'm not sure about that. At least not if you want to call it one of the names within the Polish tradition. Sure you can fortify with "ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin" (in Dwojniak/Poltorak only) if you want to, but there's also a lot of things that you would have to do (such as a specific amount of aging required), or would not be allowed to do (such as adding sulfites).

If you on the other hand mean in terms of just being able to use the term mead, then you're absolutely right, becaue for that there's no real rules established.
 
Ahh - I missed that fortification note. Good catch! There sure is a lot of information combined in each of these applications, and it shows that the existing BJCP definitions of mead are somewhat at odds with Polish commercial meadmaking practice and European Union definitions, at least as far as fortifying a beverage that can still legally be called "mead" is concerned. So the commercial folks in Europe have more leeway than we, as hobbyist meadmakers do -- at least those of us over here in N. America.

I'm not sure about that. At least not if you want to call it one of the names within the Polish tradition. Sure you can fortify with "ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin" (in Dwojniak/Poltorak only) if you want to, but there's also a lot of things that you would have to do (such as a specific amount of aging required), or would not be allowed to do (such as adding sulfites).

If you on the other hand mean in terms of just being able to use the term mead, then you're absolutely right, because for that there's no real rules established.
no, but you both should remember. The EU can be a very large, blunt implement.

It's where you get the "labelling bureaucrats" poking their noses in and come up with some crap like, you can use the original methods and techniques if the mead is produced in the country of origin - if it's available for EU wide consumption, then it must also be labelled as "mead 18" i.e. the word mead followed by the % ABV but can also have a "local" name to explain to the citizens in the country of origin. It must also include on the label that if it's had any other additives that aren't derived purely from the fermentation of the original mix of water, flavouring and sweetening elements. etc etc etc!

As I say, very blunt instrument.

If there aren't any particular rules but there are "vested interests", then "they" will often convince someone within the EU organisation to come up with some.

The most recent case I can think of being the Spanish trying to (IMO) mis-appropriate the word "Brandy". So that anything that is just called "brandy" must only be made from grape based musts/wines. The UK government was just going to "rubber stamp" this, until almost at the last moment, the bloke who makes brandy from cider (that's hard cider to you lot in the US) went charging in to get an exception from that ruling. He now gets to sell his product as "cider brandy". Mainly because he can't (legally) call it Calvados - which to me, is fair enough, calvados has genuine regional connotations.

The Spanish lobby group should have been told where to go! After all, the word Brandy isn't actually a word, certainly not a spanish one. It's an english contraction of the original Dutch/Flemish term "brandt wijn" or burnt wine.

Hopefully the above example of a commercial related group using legislation to try and steal a word or term from an entirely different language, for commercial purposes, is pretty typical of some items that come within the EU remit.

Unfortunately for Poland, the production of alcoholic beverages, does, in part, do just that. It might not be a problem yet, but it's definitely one that's sitting on the sidelines waiting for someone to "stir it up"......