Laws laws laws (and licenses too!)

[fermental]

I am certainly not the first person to join the ranks of mead making and come to a decision to try to make it for profit...however....it feels like I am the first one in the state of Connecticut to do so.

I cannot find any local meaderies, the closest is in Ma. I think a lot of this has to do with the laws and licenses and the non definition of mead. It appears in order to get a license to make mead or wine in this state I have to be a farm winery.

This would be great if the law read as it does in Massachusetts where one can be a farm winery with a very minimal license fee based on gallons made.

In Connecticut you need to actually have a farm and 25 percent of the fruit you use needs to be grown by you....there is no opening for a meadery in the wording.

The only other licenses available are for liquor, beer and cider (cider license includes apple wine)

The fees for these go from 300 a year for cider making to 1100 for beer and 1950 for liquor.

Basically what I am looking for is anyone with knowledge on the licensing and liquor laws in this state. Even the tax laws seem off the wall as they are based on carbonation levels!!

Do I need to own an apiary in order to make mead and call it honey wine? Can I make mead with a cider license or do I need a liquor license?

I spent about 15 hours the other day reading through the laws and application forms and could not find a way I can make mead without being a farm winery and growing fruit.

If that is what I need to do then so be it but farming is not really my forte.

I suppose I could just open shop across the boarder in mass but I feel like I wouldnt be helping spread the mead love by doing that. It is past time for this state to have a meadery.



Thanks for any help!

 

[fermental]

Update:


I emailed the department of consumer protection in Connecticut as they are the ones who handle liquor licenses and permits.

I asked them all of the above questions and received the following response:

"Thank you for your inquiry on the above topic. Per your description of the manufacturing an alcoholic beverage from the fermentation of honey, it appears that you would qualify for a Manufacturer permit as defined under CGS 30-16(a). I have attached the statute for your review. Please note that this type of permit does not allow the retail/tastings by the general public. You would need to disperse your product via to retailers or appoint a wholesaler for distribution of product."


So basically yes i can apply for a manufacturer permit and it will work for mead.

This still leaves the question of which permit works for mead as there is only liquor, beer, cider and apple brandy listed in the permit application:

http://www.ct.gov/dcp/lib/dcp/pdf/applications_added_2011/liquor/new_application_-_manufacturer_july_8_11.pdf


Mead is none of these, about the closest it would be is cider but even that isnt right as it has a higher alchohol content than cider.

I have replied asking them which permit would apply to mead and i am hoping they dont say liquor but i think they might.

Merriam-Webster defines liquor as "a usually distilled rather than fermented alcoholic beverage"

I am going to see how much work it will take to have mead defined under the farm winery laws and remove the wording for needing to grow your own fruit. It really should state that 25 percent of the fruit used in your alcohol must be purchased within the state of Connecticut. This would allow farmers to be farmers and fermenters to be fermenters and would give an opening for those looking to ferment but not farm to give money to the local farmers who are not making wine.

They could even stipulate that all honey used in mead making must be purchased locally, this would help support our local apiaries.

Anyone have any experience on getting things of this nature changed?

Does the AMA have any legal reprisentation yet that could assist in this?

 

[fermental]

They are doing just what i feared.

"The farm winery portion of the manufacturing permit CGS 30-(e) (1) does not meet your criteria - the only portion of the above permit that does is CGS 30-16(a). Alcoholic liquor is a solid or liquid that is equal to or more than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume. Your final product of 'mead' would appear to fall under that category."

By that definition beer, cider and apple brandy all fall under the same definition but they all have their own lower cost permits.

Seems unfair that anyone who wants to make wine or mead in this state and doesnt have a farm has to apply and pay for the same permit as someone making moonshine/vodka/rum. 1900 a year when just starting is not going to feel very good.

 

[Loadnabox]

It's the distribution portion you should be more concerned about.

You need to do some leg work and try to find a distributor now, or you might get a bunch of permits, spend tons of startup money etc just to find you have no way of getting your product to market.

Welcome to how the big beer makers have managed to create a monopoly without having a monopoly

 

[fermental]

thankfully thats one thing i do not have to worry about. So long as it isnt beer i can sell direct to market here. No need for a distributor for wine or cider...just beer, dont think that will go away any time soon, too much money lobbying to keep the beeropoly

 

[Chevette Girl]

Wait, didn't you just say the permit they told you you need was 16-A and they told you "Please note that this type of permit does not allow the retail/tastings by the general public. You would need to disperse your product via to retailers or appoint a wholesaler for distribution of product."

Or am I getting things confused?

 

[fermental]

Wait, didn't you just say the permit they told you you need was 16-A and they told you "Please note that this type of permit does not allow the retail/tastings by the general public. You would need to disperse your product via to retailers or appoint a wholesaler for distribution of product."

Or am I getting things confused?

That just means i cant sell it directly to a customer, i should have been more clear on that sorry.

I can sell it to liquor stores and bars directly, i dont need to use a distributor as the three tier system does not apply to wine or cider in Connecticut.

 

[Chevette Girl]

That just means i cant sell it directly to a customer, i should have been more clear on that sorry.

I can sell it to liquor stores and bars directly, i dont need to use a distributor as the three tier system does not apply to wine or cider in Connecticut.

Ah, I had misinterpreted the definition of distributor, completely different system here, wineries and breweries can sell direct but everything else goes through the LCBO or Beer Store in this province. Good luck with all the paperwork, I bet it's much more difficult than making the darned mead!

 

[Loadnabox]

I still would be curious if going directly to bars requires a distributors license

 

[akueck]

Try contacting Sam at Dogfish Head in Delaware. He had to write a law to allow brewing in that state before he could open his up (and he was already brewing...oops). Obviously he's had some success, so he might be a good resource for wrangling with the local legislature. It might take you bothering your local assembly-person to get a bill into state law.

 

[fermental]

Try contacting Sam at Dogfish Head in Delaware. He had to write a law to allow brewing in that state before he could open his up (and he was already brewing...oops). Obviously he's had some success, so he might be a good resource for wrangling with the local legislature. It might take you bothering your local assembly-person to get a bill into state law.

Yeah, it was brewpubs that he got legalized by talking to legislators (read his book, pretty awesome stuff)

Going to write some letters to my state and town reps about it. We should have a non farm winery license here that includes mead

 

[fermental]

Wait, didn't you just say the permit they told you you need was 16-A and they told you "Please note that this type of permit does not allow the retail/tastings by the general public. You would need to disperse your product via to retailers or appoint a wholesaler for distribution of product."

Or am I getting things confused?

It is "You would need to disperse your product via to retailers or" that should stand out, in other words i dont have to go through a distributor, i just need to sell to a retailer...no need for a distributor and then retailer. Pretty sure i would be able to sell direct to consumer too, just not from the meadery and i would need a retail license.

 

[wildoates]

There is absolutely no reason at all for such an endeavor to be so complicated and fraught with minutiae. It's insane. The easier you make it for a business to get started and thrive the more tax revenue you'll have rolling into your coffers, but noooooo, they have to make it difficult to impossible. It's dang irksome, and the older I get the more irksome it is to me!

 

[mfalenski]

Basically what I am looking for is anyone with knowledge on the licensing and liquor laws in this state. Even the tax laws seem off the wall as they are based on carbonation levels!!

Not sure about your state, but carbonation levels do play into the tax levels. Still meads are not taxed as much as carbonated or sparkling meads. Alcohol percent also is a factor - under 14% is taxed at a lower rate than 14-21%

Sorry I'm not more help in your situation...
Matt