Meadpub?
- Thread starter Dagda
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I think it's a great idea :toothy10: -- but it might be worth incorporating some traditional brewpub and/or winery offerings in with the mead. We still have to work on market recognition (let alone market acceptance!!), and having an array of high quality meads on tap along with some beers and/or traditional grape wines will give you the opportunity to talk a broader customer base into trying a mead or two.
That's what it's going to take -- no amount of advertising will replace an actual taste test, and you can win over more customers as word of mouth passes on just how good mead is to the wider community! (At least that's my theory, and the business model I'd like to use if/when I ever get my commercial dreams off the planning pad and into some real facilities.)
That's what it's going to take -- no amount of advertising will replace an actual taste test, and you can win over more customers as word of mouth passes on just how good mead is to the wider community! (At least that's my theory, and the business model I'd like to use if/when I ever get my commercial dreams off the planning pad and into some real facilities.)
I think if someone with a connection to this board were to open a brewpub that dedicated space to mead it would be an awesome opprotunity. It would be a great way to get more exposure and a wider group of people to sample recipes.
Where are you thinking of starting such a place? I know in Placerville, CA there is a store that sells mainly wine and some hard to find ales/beers. That is where I found my first mead. Tucked way back in the corner of a cold box. Changed owners since so I will never know what it was but the place does great business.
Where are you thinking of starting such a place? I know in Placerville, CA there is a store that sells mainly wine and some hard to find ales/beers. That is where I found my first mead. Tucked way back in the corner of a cold box. Changed owners since so I will never know what it was but the place does great business.
around here, there are a few bars that tend to have one or two beers on tap that are from local micro's. i talked to an owner of a bar and he said that they always get random offerings of free kegs of micro'd beers from places that are trying to get the name and the product out to the people. somebody just has to have enough initial capital to give away free booze until enough people are willing to pay for it. bars dont want to put a beer/mead on tap unless they think it will sell, so if you give it to them for free they are much more likely to do so.
I personally think it's going to take more than just offering a few free kegs. What is really needed is a push to get market penetration, and just having one tap available for the curious isn't enough of an incentive to try it.
What would really work, IMHO, provided the location has enough foot traffic to support it, is a themed restaurant that stresses the associations of food and "good times" to mead. Kind of along the brewpub model, but a bit more upscale, perhaps like some of the wineries that now have a small restaurant associated with their tasting rooms.
A perfect opportunity exists for the launch of such a thing with a tie-in to the Beowulf movie. (Too bad I didn't think of it back when they were still in production - a "Mead Hall" meadpub launched concurrent with the movie premiere would have been ideal.) Mead will be discussed by people seeing the film -- and that's when they'd be most inclined to give it a try.
What would really work, IMHO, provided the location has enough foot traffic to support it, is a themed restaurant that stresses the associations of food and "good times" to mead. Kind of along the brewpub model, but a bit more upscale, perhaps like some of the wineries that now have a small restaurant associated with their tasting rooms.
A perfect opportunity exists for the launch of such a thing with a tie-in to the Beowulf movie. (Too bad I didn't think of it back when they were still in production - a "Mead Hall" meadpub launched concurrent with the movie premiere would have been ideal.) Mead will be discussed by people seeing the film -- and that's when they'd be most inclined to give it a try.
I'm still debating on wheather to open it in Rockford, IL (I live in Loves Park,IL) or to open it in Chi-Town (um...Chicago) I have a feeling it will probably do better in Chicago. Just a gut feeling. I had intended to go with a theme of some kind. Again, deciding between a couple of themes: Celtic or Viking.
If I open a Meadery or MeadWorxtm Eatery there will be no Vikings, Celts or any of the stereotypically mead associated decor or trappings. Mead has been relegated to a niche market for far too long in my opinion. So when/if I go the commercial way, it will be something aimed more at a mainstream audience and supplemented with fine wines and ales. Elegant, understated and full of ass-kicking meads, wines and ales plus plenty of great food to feast on.
Cheers,
Oskaar
Cheers,
Oskaar
Oskaar said:
You certainly could pull that off with no gimmicks -- but the food has to be as good as the beverages, or all hope is lost.
agreed. the local bars have bad food 
i would deffinately go out to bars more if i could get some good food to go with the booze. it only seems right to have some good chicken wings while drinking beers and watching sports with my friends.
i would deffinately go out to bars more if i could get some good food to go with the booze. it only seems right to have some good chicken wings while drinking beers and watching sports with my friends.The cuisine I prepare is like nothing else that's out there at present, and is amazingly simple and elegant. Heavy influence from my family's ethnic roots along with California Barbequing and comfort food. I'd go family style, with a set daily menu and plenty of al Fresco dining space, no booths and comfortable chairs that don't look like they've been pressed out of aluminum or plastic. House mead, wine or ale would be included in the cost as would gratuity. Too many places nickel and dime you to death in the hospitality world any more, and it's time that someone started to reverse that trend.
I would also offer a section for families with children that is seperate from the adult dining area. I've had one too many meals that have been ruined by some screaming brat and inattentive parents. I would also ask the parents to mind their childrens manners for them with an incentive of free dessert for well behaved children. I wouldn't gouge the sh!t out of people who what to bring their own wine with corkage fees that you could mortgage a new home with either. That's the biggest crime I see now at restaurants. Buy our overpriced swill or we'll make you wish you had when you see the corkage fee. I'd also give people a complimentary glass of the house wine on return visits if they bring their receipts, or an empty bottle from their last visit.
Anyhow, I doubt I'd go into the food world. If you're familiar with Gordon Ramsey, let's just say that I'd send him screaming into the parking lot in under five minutes.
Cheers,
Oskaar
I would also offer a section for families with children that is seperate from the adult dining area. I've had one too many meals that have been ruined by some screaming brat and inattentive parents. I would also ask the parents to mind their childrens manners for them with an incentive of free dessert for well behaved children. I wouldn't gouge the sh!t out of people who what to bring their own wine with corkage fees that you could mortgage a new home with either. That's the biggest crime I see now at restaurants. Buy our overpriced swill or we'll make you wish you had when you see the corkage fee. I'd also give people a complimentary glass of the house wine on return visits if they bring their receipts, or an empty bottle from their last visit.
Anyhow, I doubt I'd go into the food world. If you're familiar with Gordon Ramsey, let's just say that I'd send him screaming into the parking lot in under five minutes.
Cheers,
Oskaar
Yeah, but Gordon Ramsey'd scream at a brick wall if it p!ssed him off, and most brick walls probably do! :laughing7:
Interestingly, much of what you propose is something that my buddy, John, had thought of some years ago, but within the context of a Medieval feast-hall themed restaurant (complete with an upper and lower level -- the lower level was a dungeon, for people with kids of course!!). We first started kicking these ideas around back in the late 70's. He was the one bringing the imbibables (he's my old Croatian school buddy and his dad did fruit wines in their cellar), and I would have been responsible for the menu planning (I come from a family of professional chefs and bakers). But one thing he did insist on was that roast lamb (whole, on a spit, done over coals in the main dining room) be on the menu, and I insisted that we had to offer mead at the bar.
I resonate with your thoughts about the various incentives; I'd like to see a business model that would show how this could be done within the context of a market rate prix-fixe schema that would still allow for adequate profit. But there's definitely some food (and drink) for further thought here.
You may not ever get into the food game, but I like the way you think about the business!
Interestingly, much of what you propose is something that my buddy, John, had thought of some years ago, but within the context of a Medieval feast-hall themed restaurant (complete with an upper and lower level -- the lower level was a dungeon, for people with kids of course!!). We first started kicking these ideas around back in the late 70's. He was the one bringing the imbibables (he's my old Croatian school buddy and his dad did fruit wines in their cellar), and I would have been responsible for the menu planning (I come from a family of professional chefs and bakers). But one thing he did insist on was that roast lamb (whole, on a spit, done over coals in the main dining room) be on the menu, and I insisted that we had to offer mead at the bar.
I resonate with your thoughts about the various incentives; I'd like to see a business model that would show how this could be done within the context of a market rate prix-fixe schema that would still allow for adequate profit. But there's definitely some food (and drink) for further thought here.
You may not ever get into the food game, but I like the way you think about the business!
For those of you that get to the central California area, try the Santa Fe. It’s on Santa Fe Ave. across from the old Santa Fe railway depot in Fresno. I hope it’s still there, haven’t been there for a couple of years, but it had good beer and the best food going. It was an old Basque watering hole. You would go in and ask Jean Claude for a beer and dinner, you’d pay him the money and when you were ready you’d go into the back room and sit at the table. Just long picnic tables. Then they would start bring out the food, when there was absolutely no way to eat anything else they would then bring you whatever they had for dessert that night. I used to spend the extra time to come down the 99 instead of the 5 just so I could eat there. I knew a guy that drank a bit much there one night, instead of letting him drive home, they would poured him into bed in one of the old rooms upstairs. I always thought that if I owned a pub I'd like it to be like that.
Cheers
Jay
Cheers
Jay
Cool thread. A concern would be profitability. It would be fun to open up a meadhall but it has to appease to the paying customer enough to not run the owner out of savings and then close down. That wont help mead being accepted more.
1: If you open a gimmick restaurant people will treat it as gimmick. Something interesting to see but nothing to be taken seriously.
2: It couldn't be just a meadpub or it would never get enough business to be profitable. Beer, hard alcohol, and wine would need to be served. I am liking Oskaar's ideas for incentives. I would go a step further and offer a basic mead practically for free for the curious folk. Just at the price to cover the cost of making it in house. Then those meths, cysers, and the more 'advanced' meads could be charged for profit.
3: Be reasonable with alcohol prices. If its one thing I cant stand its getting a gigantic plate of food for cheap $ and then getting a small glass of common wine thats way over priced. Maybe its just me but I always feel like I am getting ripped off. We have a brewery called Rock Bottom. They make their own beers on site. First pint is $4 which is commonly priced and refills are $2. And its really good beer. If it was the full price I probably wouldnt get another and I think this concept would work well for a in house produced mead.
4: Really successful pubs/restaurants score high in 3 catagories. Atmosphere, quality, price. Oskaar I agree completely about the screaming brat. I'm not unreasonable. I know kids will get out of hand but the parents better quiet the kid down. I also really dislike uncomfortable chairs. The food maybe great but if my legs are getting pinched I wont be paying attention to the quality of flavor. Please dont make the walls look like a tornado flew through the county fair and dumped its content in your restaurant.
5: What will the mead/wine taste like that I am ordering? In Colorado most wait staff know general catagories of wine but not the specifics of what is being served. Is that overpriced glass going to be what I thought it would be? Oops no. Now I am stuck with a bad wine to food pairing. Most customers are going to only know red/white meat -> red/white wine let alone what would go well with mead. I'd become a loyal customer of a restaurant that came out and offered a taste of wine before I ordered.
1: If you open a gimmick restaurant people will treat it as gimmick. Something interesting to see but nothing to be taken seriously.
2: It couldn't be just a meadpub or it would never get enough business to be profitable. Beer, hard alcohol, and wine would need to be served. I am liking Oskaar's ideas for incentives. I would go a step further and offer a basic mead practically for free for the curious folk. Just at the price to cover the cost of making it in house. Then those meths, cysers, and the more 'advanced' meads could be charged for profit.
3: Be reasonable with alcohol prices. If its one thing I cant stand its getting a gigantic plate of food for cheap $ and then getting a small glass of common wine thats way over priced. Maybe its just me but I always feel like I am getting ripped off. We have a brewery called Rock Bottom. They make their own beers on site. First pint is $4 which is commonly priced and refills are $2. And its really good beer. If it was the full price I probably wouldnt get another and I think this concept would work well for a in house produced mead.
4: Really successful pubs/restaurants score high in 3 catagories. Atmosphere, quality, price. Oskaar I agree completely about the screaming brat. I'm not unreasonable. I know kids will get out of hand but the parents better quiet the kid down. I also really dislike uncomfortable chairs. The food maybe great but if my legs are getting pinched I wont be paying attention to the quality of flavor. Please dont make the walls look like a tornado flew through the county fair and dumped its content in your restaurant.
5: What will the mead/wine taste like that I am ordering? In Colorado most wait staff know general catagories of wine but not the specifics of what is being served. Is that overpriced glass going to be what I thought it would be? Oops no. Now I am stuck with a bad wine to food pairing. Most customers are going to only know red/white meat -> red/white wine let alone what would go well with mead. I'd become a loyal customer of a restaurant that came out and offered a taste of wine before I ordered.
I'm refining the concept of what I have in mind more and more as this thread progresses. I hear you all, and as a result if I pursue this I am not going to go for the "gimmick" trappings of a viking, celtic, slavic, mythical or other "theme," but I would like to see the idea of large tables, comfortable chairs, and an un-rushed dining experience for all customers. Clearly the dining experience has to be the real draw - the beverages served are ancillary, although meads are available at the most attractive price points in order to give people an incentive to try them. I'm having trouble with the business model still -- most successful restaurants make it because they can move a sufficient volume of customers through the place per night. The slower the flow, the higher the prices per customer need to be in order to hit the profit point. The concept of family style is good, provided you can still keep the flow moving, or keep the cost of ingredients for the food low and the prep time to an absolute minimum. That usually translates into a lower quality product at the table, although not always. Menu planning for that kind of operation is a real bear, since you basically have to set up a lot of low volume continuous output streams in the kitchen... hard to tailor those streams to varying demand -- and if you've ever worked in a restaurant you know that demand can be variable, even on your typically busy nights.
The introduction of various meads might be best done with a combination of knowledgeable waitstaff and a variation on the brewpub idea of a "sampler." Serve customers a variety of small tastes of all the meads available, and then let them order a glass or bottle of the one they feel would work best for them that night. Perhaps offer a discount on that follow-up order to anyone who tried the sampler first, just to encourage experimentation. Hmmm.....
The introduction of various meads might be best done with a combination of knowledgeable waitstaff and a variation on the brewpub idea of a "sampler." Serve customers a variety of small tastes of all the meads available, and then let them order a glass or bottle of the one they feel would work best for them that night. Perhaps offer a discount on that follow-up order to anyone who tried the sampler first, just to encourage experimentation. Hmmm.....
OK, so maybe a "theme" is a bad idea. But I would like it to have an Old World "feel". Long dining tables, plush, or at least padded, seats, soft lighting and the like.
Of course, there will be smaller tables for costomers who come in smaller groups. And no live candles.
"Ooooo...pretty..." *little burned hand and lots of screaming*
There's a lawsuit I don't want.
I'd like to keep the food at least based in old world recipies but will provide more modern foods too.
I also like the idea of allowing customers to tase the Mead/Ale/Wine before buying it. As well as hireing people who know their food/drink pairings.
Of course, there will be smaller tables for costomers who come in smaller groups. And no live candles.
"Ooooo...pretty..." *little burned hand and lots of screaming*
There's a lawsuit I don't want.
I'd like to keep the food at least based in old world recipies but will provide more modern foods too.
I also like the idea of allowing customers to tase the Mead/Ale/Wine before buying it. As well as hireing people who know their food/drink pairings.
When I said a theme wouldnt work I was meaning more like a theme park restaurant. Having the tables in the shape of viking longboats and the waitstaff wear helmets with ox horns on them LOL. Old world recipes and food served with mead in a proper, serious setting is something completely different and one that isnt really done well often.
Wayneb up in Denver there is an italian restaurant called Maggiono's. $20 for chicken marsala, without pasta, that costs more. They have $40+ family dinners with multiple courses. Wine by the glass starts at $10. But hot dog that was a pleasure to eat and the experiance was great. I was happy to pay my $50 bill. That place was ridiculously packed and we had a 2 hour wait to be seated but it was worth it.
Wayneb up in Denver there is an italian restaurant called Maggiono's. $20 for chicken marsala, without pasta, that costs more. They have $40+ family dinners with multiple courses. Wine by the glass starts at $10. But hot dog that was a pleasure to eat and the experiance was great. I was happy to pay my $50 bill. That place was ridiculously packed and we had a 2 hour wait to be seated but it was worth it.
My idea has always been more along the line of an old English Pub, I guess just too much of my youth wasted away there.
A basic set of Pub food, to serve in the pub, but spectacular, unlike most of what you get in L.A. along with it a restaurant. I’ve always dreamed of cooking up lamb, boar venison and such, with the most decadent chocolate desserts you can imagine.
The building should be made out of rock, leaded glass windows set in wooden frames. A simple sprung wood floor and large beamed ceiling with one portion of it being about 9-10 feet high. After all you wouldn’t want the lose rapper or carelessly wielded stick breaking your crystal chandelier. A fireplace and a nook for darts. A nice cozy to stick either the children that might wander in or the itinerant musicians, which ever were making the more noise that night. A bar to belly up to and tables set in a way that encouraged people to mingle instead of separate into their own groups.
Separate from this, maybe just on the other side of the bar would be a room with a large fireplace at the end and rows of picnic tables.
Out back would have to be a bit of a garden where people could sit on a sunny afternoon and you could hold small concerts in the summer.
As to drawing customers back, when you are setting up the place sell shares in it. Each share enables the owner to a free pint each week.
You get the idea.
Cheers
Jay
A basic set of Pub food, to serve in the pub, but spectacular, unlike most of what you get in L.A. along with it a restaurant. I’ve always dreamed of cooking up lamb, boar venison and such, with the most decadent chocolate desserts you can imagine.
The building should be made out of rock, leaded glass windows set in wooden frames. A simple sprung wood floor and large beamed ceiling with one portion of it being about 9-10 feet high. After all you wouldn’t want the lose rapper or carelessly wielded stick breaking your crystal chandelier. A fireplace and a nook for darts. A nice cozy to stick either the children that might wander in or the itinerant musicians, which ever were making the more noise that night. A bar to belly up to and tables set in a way that encouraged people to mingle instead of separate into their own groups.
Separate from this, maybe just on the other side of the bar would be a room with a large fireplace at the end and rows of picnic tables.
Out back would have to be a bit of a garden where people could sit on a sunny afternoon and you could hold small concerts in the summer.
As to drawing customers back, when you are setting up the place sell shares in it. Each share enables the owner to a free pint each week.
You get the idea.
Cheers
Jay
Hey, Rhianni! I know Maggiano's, and it is a perfect example of how to do the "family style" concept correctly. First, they are part of a chain (actually a franchise, I think), and they have the backing and research of several years' of concept operation in several locations around the country to use to tweak and tune their menus and processes. Second, the prices they charge demonstrate the point I was trying to make earlier. "Family style" dinners with prices approaching some of the featured entrees at the best places in Denver more than compensate for the "flow speed" difference I alluded to in my earlier posting. I didn't mean to imply earlier that it couldn't work -- it does work beautifully when you've got the process and the prices tuned to the market. I just meant to make the point that it isn't easy to pull it off, and you've got to be ready for more than a little time spent with the books recorded in red ink until you tune it up -- unless you're incredibly lucky, or you're backed by the talents and knowledge of a parent company that's already built the business model, or you just happen to scratch an itch in a niche market that hasn't been tapped yet.
