Melomel? Or Not?

[Oskaar]

Pewter,

If you're not sure why people get uptight about the questions that you're asking, it's probably a good idea to go back and carefully re-read their responses to your questions.

In many cases you have responded to my posts in a manner that has led me to believe that you didn't really read, understand or acknowledge what I was saying. Sulfites is a good example.

If you want to continue this conversation private message me. This thread is moving toward philosophies rather than meadmaking. I'll have no problem with locking the thread if it continues to move in that direction.

Oskaar

 

[Dmntd]

This thread is moving toward philosophies rather than meadmaking.

Oskaar hit on the heart of the question.

My opinion of what a melomel is, is from the perspective of a meadmaker, making it an easy question to answer. The description of a Melomel can be found in a number of books and on a lot of websites.

Like this one: http://www.leeners.com/meadrecipes.html

At least to myself, The answer is there in Black & white.

Anthony

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

(I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but this is how *I* am going to do it in the absence of formal IMA guidelines.)

Fruit/Juice Added to Primary - Melomel

Fruit/Juice Added to Secondary, Tertiary, etc... - Melomel

Fruit/Juice Added after stabilization but prior to bottling - Flavored Mead, Mixed Mead, Mead Mixer, Blended Mead, Specialty Mead, Mead Cordial, etc...
(Maybe "Fruit infused Mead" if the Mead has been added specifically to fruit instead of fruit juice.)

Finished/stabilized Fruit Wine Added to a Finished/stabilized Mead - Flavored Mead, Mixed Mead, Mead Mixer, Blended Mead, Specialty Mead, Blended Wine, etc...

Fruit Extracts or any artificial fruit flavoring added at any stage – Flavored Mead

As far as I’m concerned, if the fruit or juice wasn’t added with the intention of having it ferment to some degree with the honey, it’s still Mead, but it’s not a Melomel.

Works for me...

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Let me try to explain why this is an important issue to me...

I go to a large Ren Faire about every two years. There is a "meadmaker" there though I use the term VERY loosely. He charges $5 for an 6 or maybe 8 ounce plastic cup of what he calls mead. Since I had gotten started in meadmaking last year, I finally spent the money and got a "raspberry mead". It tasted nothing like mead and barely like raspberries.

I asked the sales girl about it but she didn't know anything and called the "meadmaker" out. We discussed meadmaking and his products. It turns out his raspberry mead was raspberry wine (not even good raspberry wine) with a little honey added after the ferment. So he let me try a small sample of his apple mead. It was horrid. It had no sweetness and very little apple taste. When I asked him, he said that apple mead wasn't supposed to have honey so what I was drinking was very likely just a hard cider or a sugar fortified cider. No honey at all but it was being pawned off as mead...

Commercial mead has a tremendous future, especially with the recent changes in the laws. Poorly made mead products, imitation mead products, cheap mead products, all threaten to salt the fields for the good meads that are out there. So I am really happy to see Michael adopt the sort of standards he is talking about. It means that I as a consumer do not have to figure out what I am purchasing by trial and error. The melomel issue is a lot like the labelling that is done on juice products to tell us whether it is 100 percent fruit juices, juice from concentrate, or some juice, like grapes, with some other juice, like apples added as filler. I need to know these things in order to make an educated selection on my juice at the store, especially when I intend to make mead out of it. Shouldn't I be able to have the same sort of thing when I come to select a melomel?

As far as the forum. Everyone has opinions and everyone has the right to express their opinions and everyone has the right to disagree with anyone else's opinions. It is a DISCUSSION.

 

[Oskaar]

Good background information.

The important question is did you say anything to the event management/promoter? They need to know when they have a snake-oil salesman peddling crappola to their customers.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

I have no idea who is behind the event and so I didn't go after it that way. Not my style...

I did however contemplate how long it would take me to start brewing enough mead to make a proposal to the event organizers to replace the crappola. He sells thousands of dollars of it because he has a captive audience.

BTW, we are discussing an event that has about 100,000+ visitors a year. So a lot of people are being given the wrong ideas about mead, which will in turn kill the market for the good brewers out there.

Any meadery here want to do a couple thousand gallons of good stuff on a percentage basis? Actually, I'm not serious since I don't have the time to live away from home for two months...

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Norskersword]

Hey Pewter, I meant no offense.

Personally, I won't be getting involved in a discussion about whether or not juice added in secondary is considered a melomel or not, or if a mead with some extract is added is a melomel or not, but I do have to agree with you about that guy in your story.

It all goes back to the Bunratty Meade example. How can Mead get it's foothold if people are getting the wrong impression about mead in the first place?

To me, I agree with Oscaar (he just keeps saying the things on my mind!). It isn't important what a melomel is and so forth right now, IMHO, but it is important what a mead is in the first place. People need to be educated on what mead is first, and it isn't the time to be teaching them about melomels and pyments yet.

 

[Meriadoc]

It isn't important what a melomel is and so forth right now, IMHO, but it is important what a mead is in the first place. People need to be educated on what mead is first, and it isn't the time to be teaching them about melomels and pyments yet.

I'm a newbie here, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that the need to educate the consumer market is exactly the reason why standard definitions are a good thing!

no, folks aren't gonna care about the distinctions between primary and secondary fermentations, but there is a difference between fermented and non-fermented ingredients that is significant to the average mead-drinker's experience! It's exactly this kind of distinction that would aid in identifying what people are drinking, and help standardize the discussion.

Even if it were as simple as "this is blackberry mead" as opposed to "this is blackberry wine with honey added" or "this is mead with blackberry juice added", then you're getting to what an "educated" consumer needs to know.

It also seems to me that some segments will be more interested in flavored drinks, rather than traditional straight mead. for these folks especially, I would think that this breakdown is important to their perception of what they're drinking.

Just one guy's thoughts...

Merry

 

[Oskaar]

Hey Merry!

You make some good points. I agree that a definition needs to be in place ASAR (As Soon As Reasonable), and that those definitions need to be standardized. I think that as mead becomes more popular and people become more familiar with what mead is, that definitions will become key.

We home mead makers are going to play a very important role in helping to influence what those definitions are. One thing we'll also need to try and influence is how the bottles are labeled by commercial meadmakers/wineries. We can lay down some wonderfully specific mead sub-categories, but if there is no vehicle in place to drive the commercial meaderies to adhere to those standards it will still be difficult for the average Joe consumer to discern fermented, blended, juice added, etc.

LostnBronx did a very ambitious survey and taxonomy project with mead classifications and definitions. When he presented these to other mediums (outside) of Gotmead.com he received some very angry responses from people (everyone from Commercial Meadmakers to home Meadmakers) who I thought would have some constructive feedback. It was really surprising.

I dunno honestly about how things should be classified I think that we do need to get a strong definition of mead out to the general public, and evangelize it in a way that will attract enthusiasts across the board.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[Meriadoc]

We can lay down some wonderfully specific mead sub-categories, but if there is no vehicle in place to drive the commercial meaderies to adhere to those standards it will still be difficult for the average Joe consumer to discern fermented, blended, juice added, etc.

Very true. typically, this would be the role of either a widely-recognized industry group, or a government agency, wouldn't it?

LostnBronx did a very ambitious survey and taxonomy project with mead classifications and definitions. When he presented these to other mediums (outside) of Gotmead.com he received some very angry responses from people

Funny you should mention that... i don't do much Usenetting anymore these days, but for some reason, i went out to check out the homebrew landscape out there last week. wow -- that was an interesting experience! The beer groups seemed a whole lot rowdier than the mead groups : ... and when i saw the response to bronx's posts, i was really shocked, especially by the vehemence of the responses by one individual. turf wars are sooo much fun...

I think that we do need to get a strong definition of mead out to the general public

Agreed... it's tough enough to get some folks to try new things; when you have a hard time describing what it is that they should try, it makes the effort that much more challenging...

 

[Mynx]

especially by the vehemence of the responses by one individual

To be fair, said individual knows as much about mead as I do about roping cattle.

That is to say, very little. Major reason I rarely frequent r.c.meadmaking anymore, as a matter of fact.

R.c.brewing is still a fount of good info, if you can ignore the trolls

(Back to melomels now!)

 

[Prolific_Praxis]

No and NO. I tend to keep a hard view on a lot of things. The Definition of a term being one of them (my girl insist I'm pig-headed about that). I use a 1939 Wlm. Webster dictionary by definintion (in that book) naked means un-armed and un-able to defend ones self, Nude is to be without clothing.

When we allow folks to use terms to mean whatever the hell they want them to mean, being clear as to what you mean when you say something becomes harder and harder. I'm of the opinion, we as mazers/mead makers set hard and fast guidelines.

I've read the post about set classes being confusing, well put your big girl panties on and deal with it.

Take a look at beer, there are very stirct guide lines as to what can be called what, if a brew falls out side the guidelines of a style it is still beer, however it is not that style of beer. We should set standards that must be met for a mead to be considered of a style, if it does not meet the standard it should just be called mead with whatever added blended and so on.

Melomel A mead Made With. fruit or fruit juice, not blended with,

If it's fermented from honey and water it's mead.

Anthony

We now return your soap box to its Regular hard liner.

Well Anthony (and others) the definition of "made" is to put together of various ingredients. In that regard, if a mead is "put together" with fruit or fruit juice or in the case of metheglins, spices and herbs. I do take more of a hard line as well when it comes to what constitutes a mead but I think we should turn to our governing body <the IMA> to make a clear <and final> determination.

 

[Oskaar]

Well Anthony (and others) the definition of "made" is to put together of various ingredients. In that regard, if a mead is "put together" with fruit or fruit juice or in the case of metheglins, spices and herbs. I do take more of a hard line as well when it comes to what constitutes a mead but I think we should turn to our governing body <the IMA> to make a clear <and final> determination.

Praxis,

Welcome to Got Mead?.

Mead does not have a governing body (the IMA died two years ago) and there is no organized industry body at present.

Please check the date of the last post on threads and start a new one if it is more than a few months old.

Thanks for their patience and cooperation,

Oskaar