Need Help Making Better Mead

[AlwaysWaven]

Hello all,

I have made two successful batches of JAOM, and would like to branch out to try a blueberry mead (melomel). I think one of my problems with other batches is that I have stressed out my yeast, and the off flavors take forever to go away. So, I have been doing research and have started reading The Compleat Meadmaker. I have also purchased a stir plate and aeration hookup.

The recipe is here - http://meadist.com/making-mead/mead-recipes/blueberry-mead/

4.5 gal water
11 cups Clover Honey (8.25 lbs)
3 oz Fresh Ginger
2 Lemons
2 Limes
1 gal Frozen Blueberries (freezing the berries breaks cell walls and releases more fruit juice)
4 tsp Yeast Nutrient
5 g (1 packet) Red Star Cote des Blancs
1 oz. Cascade Leaf Hops
3/4 cup Corn Sugar

I plan to follow the plan shared there, but I want to make sure I have my starter planned out correctly.

For that, I went here - http://www.winning-homebrew.com/mead.html

Boil 6 cups of water with 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient and 1 Tbs of Dried Malt Extract for 5 minutes. Add 1/2 cup of honey, stir and remove from the heat.

Cover the starter and allow it to cool to room temperature. When the starter has cooled, sanitize an Erlenmeyer flask and funnel and pour the starter through the funnel into the Erlenmeyer flask.

Either cut the corner off a packet of Wyeast or shake the vial of White Labs liquid yeast vigorously to suspend the packed yeast, then pour it into the flask of starter solution.

If you plan to use pure oxygen, oxygenate the starter now. If you plan to shake the starter to introduce oxygen, put a stopper in the flask and shake and swirl the starter to aerate.

You should see signs of active fermentation soon. Ferment your starter for 24-36 hours, then put it into the fridge to settle (if using DME for your starter solution).

If you are using a honey and water solution with nutrients as your starter, you can pitch the entire contents of the starter into the must.

When you get ready to pitch the yeast, pour off as much of the "starter beer" as you can (if using DME for your starter solution) so you don't affect the flavor of your mead. If you do not see any signs of life on the day you want to make the honeywine, don't ferment with the inactive yeast. Instead, have a few packets of dried yeast available just in case.

It is best if you can use a stir plate as it will significantly increase the amount of yeast growth you can expect for a given volume of starter.

So, my questions are -

1. Does the starter stay on the stir plate the whole 24 hours until I put it in the fridge?

2. Also, am I reading this correctly that I should pour as much liquid as possible out of the starter before I pitch it? Won't that make it hard to get it to come out of the flask?

3. Since this recipe does not give gravity readings, should I just aerate for 60 seconds for the first three days after pitching?

4. Since I am aerating the mead manually, should I cover and airlock the bucket after pitching or cover it with a sanitized cloth?

Thanks to all!

 

[Dadux]

Its good to see you are stepping up your game.

Starters are usually only necesary for liquid yeast. The original recipe calls for red star cote des blancs yeast, which is dry yeast.
Please tell us what yeast you are going to use. If its dry, you dont need a starter.
Also that starter is ment for beer. for instruction from a meadmaker on how to do starters go here https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/Start/ (you have the beer starter and below the mead starter)

For aereation put an airlock as you would do normally. take the lid off and stir with a big spoon or something sanitized that does the job, or just take out the airlock and shake it.

Personally, I'd tell you that if you are not doing BOMM recipe, use dry, white wine/champagne yeast. Its easier, cheaper, and does a good job. If you already purchased liquid yeast then you can do the starter.

Apart from that, the recipe from meadist is a very "beginners recipe". Some things could be changed for better fermentation. I dont want to overwhelm you with information, but if you want the last threads in the newbee guide probably contain a lot of information that could be helpful to you. In addition to "the complete meadmaker", check the newbee guide in the site if you still haven't done it. It contains a lot of helpful information.
Using better meadmaking techniques you will get less off flavours and the ones you get will fade sooner, and you'll end with a drinkable mead much faster

 

[caduseus]

Hello all,

I have made two successful batches of JAOM, and would like to branch out to try a blueberry mead (melomel). I think one of my problems with other batches is that I have stressed out my yeast, and the off flavors take forever to go away. So, I have been doing research and have started reading The Compleat Meadmaker. I have also purchased a stir plate and aeration hookup.

The recipe is here - http://meadist.com/making-mead/mead-recipes/blueberry-mead/



I plan to follow the plan shared there, but I want to make sure I have my starter planned out correctly.

For that, I went here - http://www.winning-homebrew.com/mead.html



So, my questions are -

1. Does the starter stay on the stir plate the whole 24 hours until I put it in the fridge?

2. Also, am I reading this correctly that I should pour as much liquid as possible out of the starter before I pitch it? Won't that make it hard to get it to come out of the flask?

3. Since this recipe does not give gravity readings, should I just aerate for 60 seconds for the first three days after pitching?

4. Since I am aerating the mead manually, should I cover and airlock the bucket after pitching or cover it with a sanitized cloth?

Thanks to all!

1) Why not wine yeast as the recipe suggests?
2) Keep in mind that if you DONT use a wine yeast, wyeast 1388 (BOMM yeast) is the one most studied/researched/done among the liquid yeasts. If you don't want a wine yeast then I HIGHLY recommend wyeast 1388
3) Rather than corn sugar I would just add extra honey
4) Use hydrometer readings throughout regardless what yo udo
5) Don't use DAP/yeast nutrient. Either use Fermaid-K or Fermaid- O using TiOSNA or TOSNA protocol. Google these and read up
6) Starter is only for liquid yeast if you go that route
7) Oxygenation is for 2 minutes. Longer if you just stir vigorously; You oxygenate/aerate twice a day once the bubbler starts

 

[Squatchy]

The yeast you have listed is a dry wine yeast. You should be fine with that. This reciope will make you a very dry mead. (bone dry). Most folks won't like it that dry.

I'm sure you must be in a hurry to get started. That's fine if you want to. But. If you want to make better mead you need to take the time to learn more protocol than you currently understand. That is if you still want a cleaner finished product that won't take so long to become drinkable.

I copied this reply I made in another thread . It also applies to you.



So you'll need to buy some and learn how to feed your yeast. You will also need to learn how to re-hydrate your yeast. You can find the rehydrating part in this handbook. http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottlabsHandbook2016.pdf

There is info in here about nutrients as well.

And here http://www.meadmaderight.com/info.html

I just found this I posted on another thread. This will help


Hi James and welcome to the forum.

So here are some things you need to understand and employ to make good mead

The bible is here http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottlabsHandbook2016.pdf

You over time will find yeast you like and will hear about the main ones on here. You can read about them in the handbook

I will list the things you need to know

Sanitation

Rehydration (with Go-ferm if you can get it)
Attemperation of yeast slurry to must,,,,,,, this is on page 7

Oxygenation

Temp control
Pitch Staggered Nutrient Additions.,,,, Proper amounts of Fermaid O and timing,,, http://www.meadmakr.com/batch-buildr/ http://www.meadmaderight.com/info.html

Degassing/ aeration/

Rouse the yeast daily

Stabilization

 

[AlwaysWaven]

Ok, thanks for all the replies. I was trying to read them last night, but apparently I broke the site for a while.

I thought that I was making the starter as part of my rehydration process. I will get back to reading. I also wondered about dumping all of the nutrient in at once - I thought I was supposed to stagger it throughout fermentation.

I am not in a hurry. I have been working on an assignment for eight straight days, and reading about mead was a fun distraction.

It appears that most of you do not think this recipe will turn out sweet enough, and to be honest I would hate to have 5 gallons of undrinkable dry mead. So, what is a better recipes for after I do some more studying?

Cadesues - I will research TiOSNA or TOSNA protocol.

 

[caduseus]

Ok, thanks for all the replies. I was trying to read them last night, but apparently I broke the site for a while.

I thought that I was making the starter as part of my rehydration process. I will get back to reading. I also wondered about dumping all of the nutrient in at once - I thought I was supposed to stagger it throughout fermentation.

I am not in a hurry. I have been working on an assignment for eight straight days, and reading about mead was a fun distraction.

It appears that most of you do not think this recipe will turn out sweet enough, and to be honest I would hate to have 5 gallons of undrinkable dry mead. So, what is a better recipes for after I do some more studying?

Cadesues - I will research TiOSNA or TOSNA protocol.

Dont worry about it turning out dry. It can be backsweetened.

To make a sweet mead at 13% ABV or higher:
1) Make dry, stabilize, then backsweeten. Let it sit at least a month for the new honey to integrate. But honestly you don't want to drink it right after fermentation anyway.
2) Put extra honey way over SG 1.1. While this will work it will put osmotic stress on the yeast. This in turn may potentially lead to fusel production (higher above 1.1 the more likely this will happen) which in turn requires more ageing (much more than just a month or 2 from option 1).

In summary i recommend option 1 as this would require less ageing time potentially. Of course you could get lucky and have no fusels made with option 2. But this is a gamble. Most meads are drinkable but not great RIGHT after fermentation is done. So I would recommend option 1, as this 1-2 months would be helpful for the mead for other reasons because the mead will be so new.

 

[AlwaysWaven]

Dont worry about it turning out dry. It can be backsweetened.

To make a sweet mead at 13% ABV or higher:
1) Make dry, stabilize, then backsweeten. Let it sit at least a month for the new honey to integrate. But honestly you don't want to drink it right after fermentation anyway.
2) Put extra honey way over SG 1.1. While this will work it will put osmotic stress on the yeast. This in turn may potentially lead to fusel production (higher above 1.1 the more likely this will happen) which in turn requires more ageing (much more than just a month or 2 from option 1).

In summary i recommend option 1 as this would require less ageing time potentially. Of course you could get lucky and have no fusels made with option 2. But this is a gamble. Most meads are drinkable but not great RIGHT after fermentation is done. So I would recommend option 1, as this 1-2 months would be helpful for the mead for other reasons because the mead will be so new.

Ok, I can do either of those. Is there a better starting point? I am not locked into that recipe. Also, shouldn't I stagger feed the nutrient?

 

[Dadux]

Ok, thanks for all the replies. I was trying to read them last night, but apparently I broke the site for a while.

I thought that I was making the starter as part of my rehydration process. I will get back to reading. I also wondered about dumping all of the nutrient in at once - I thought I was supposed to stagger it throughout fermentation.

I am not in a hurry. I have been working on an assignment for eight straight days, and reading about mead was a fun distraction.

It appears that most of you do not think this recipe will turn out sweet enough, and to be honest I would hate to have 5 gallons of undrinkable dry mead. So, what is a better recipes for after I do some more studying?

Cadesues - I will research TiOSNA or TOSNA protocol.

What caduseus says is right. Easiest thing to do is backsweetening
But i just gotta point out that dry mead is not bad, or undrinkable for being dry. A lot of people love dry meads. That is just preference.
You are also right about the nutrients, they are usually added in parts at different moments.
Squatchy's post also lists most things you need to review and learn how to do to make good mead.

For rehidration just use 25ml of water per gram of yeast. Heat the water to 35-40ºC. If you have goferm add it now at 1.25 grams per gram of yeast (ONLY GOFERM, NO OTHER NUTRIENT IS TO BE USED), if you dont just go to the next step. Then add the yeast and stir gently. Wait for 15-20 minutes. after that slowly add must to the yeast and stir gently until the yeast is at the same temperature than the original must. Then pitch.

 

[AlwaysWaven]

Ok, so GOTERM in my rehydration, and Fermaid-O​ as my yeast food as follows.

- The first nutrient addition happens 24-hours after yeast pitch.
- Then at the 48 & 72 hour marks after yeast pitch.
- Final nutrient addition is on Day 7 after yeast pitch, or when fermentation has reached its 1/3 sugar break, whichever comes first.

So, looking at this - Initial Sugar (g/L) x N requirement factor x batch size (gals) / 50 (ppm) = Total Fermaid-O (grams) - I have 8.25 lbs of honey - and I am guessing I am on the low end of N needs, right?

 

[Dadux]

Ok, so GOTERM in my rehydration, and Fermaid-O​ as my yeast food as follows.

- The first nutrient addition happens 24-hours after yeast pitch.
- Then at the 48 & 72 hour marks after yeast pitch.
- Final nutrient addition is on Day 7 after yeast pitch, or when fermentation has reached its 1/3 sugar break, whichever comes first.

So, looking at this - Initial Sugar (g/L) x N requirement factor x batch size (gals) / 50 (ppm) = Total Fermaid-O (grams) - I have 8.25 lbs of honey - and I am guessing I am on the low end of N needs, right?

Overall you are. But what yeast are you using? the Red Star one? each yeast has a different nitrogent requirement factor, either low, medium or high. It should be in the description of the yeast or the datasheet (probably in the website of the manufacturer).
Are you only using 8.25lbs? That'll get you to around 9% ABV in 4.5 gals total (maybe 10-11% with the blueberries). You might consider using more honey or doing less total volume. Depends on what you want. I'd also skip the hops.

 

[AlwaysWaven]

Overall you are. But what yeast are you using? the Red Star one? each yeast has a different nitrogent requirement factor, either low, medium or high. It should be in the description of the yeast or the datasheet (probably in the website of the manufacturer).
Are you only using 8.25lbs? That'll get you to around 9% ABV in 4.5 gals total (maybe 10-11% with the blueberries). You might consider using more honey or doing less total volume. Depends on what you want. I'd also skip the hops.

I was planning on using the prescribed yeast. I am happy to modify the recipe to make it better. That was just one that I found online.

EDIT - I am 100% open to suggestions. You guys are the experts.


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[Dadux]

I was planning on using the prescribed yeast. I am happy to modify the recipe to make it better. That was just one that I found online.

The yeast is ok, check the nitrogen requirements, i have never used it so i've no idea on that end.
The recipe is just a way to get a final product. If you want to have some hop flavour, then add the hops. if you want a 9-10% ABV mead then the ammount of honey is good.
The hop things was just something personal. The honey ammount is low to the usual standards (i guess most of us usually aim at 12-16% ABV). But by no means its "wrong", many meads are also done in that ABV range. I hope you understand what im trying to say. Using those things in that ammount you get a finished product with certain caracteristics. If those seem good to you, there is no need to modify anything.

That being said, some things are wrong/improvable on that recipe. Dont heat water, dissolve the honey in water at room temperature (this preserves the original honey flavour and smell). Dont add the lemons and the limes during primary, because they will lower the pH and that can be bad for the yeast. If you want the flavour, add only the zest (Not the pith, that is very bitter). If you want the acidity and the flavour use the zest and juice after fermentation is done (or only juice for acidity). Also apart from goferm and fermaid O its recommended the use of 2 grams per gallon of potassium bicarbonate to buffer the pH and keep it constant during fermentation. This is done before pitching the yeast. And use TOSNA as you read from the meadmaderight website.
Keep in mind using corn sugar before bottling will result in carbonated mead. Again, you can do this or not depending on if you want bubbly mead or still mead. Im just clarifying why they tell call for corn sugar before bottling. The yeast will ferment it in the bottle creating CO2, and the mead will be carbonated.

 

[caduseus]

Ok, so GOTERM in my rehydration, and Fermaid-O​ as my yeast food as follows.

- The first nutrient addition happens 24-hours after yeast pitch.
- Then at the 48 & 72 hour marks after yeast pitch.
- Final nutrient addition is on Day 7 after yeast pitch, or when fermentation has reached its 1/3 sugar break, whichever comes first.

So, looking at this - Initial Sugar (g/L) x N requirement factor x batch size (gals) / 50 (ppm) = Total Fermaid-O (grams) - I have 8.25 lbs of honey - and I am guessing I am on the low end of N needs, right?

It says the Red Star Cote des Blancs is high which is 1.25 multiplication factor.
I dont use Red Star yeast so i can give any more input about this yeast.
I prefer Lallemand/Lalvin mainly because the Scott Handbook is extremely helpful resource for fermentation but it only covers these yeast.

FYI: http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottlabsHandbook2016.pdf

 

[Dadux]

It says the Red Star Cote des Blancs is high which is 1.25 multiplication factor.
I dont use Red Star yeast so i can give any more input about this yeast.
I prefer Lallemand/Lalvin mainly because the Scott Handbook is extremely helpful resource for fermentation but it only covers these yeast.

FYI: http://www.scottlab.com/pdf/ScottlabsHandbook2016.pdf

The yeast seems good. A lot of info on different yeasts here, https://winemakermag.com/yeast-strains-chart , and where i got the following info:

"One of the most traditional aromatic strains for white wines. An excellent choice for fruity wines"
14% ABV tolerance, so you are good on that end. 13-30ºC temp range. You want to ferment close to 15ºC (15-18 is ideal for most yeasts)

 

[AlwaysWaven]

I would not mind pushing the ABV up a fair amount. I will leave out the citrus - my real hope was a honey and light blueberry taste. I was on the fence about the carbonation - I don't think it is necessary.

So, I formulate a number based on my honey, multiply by 1.25 and then divide by 2 because I am using fruit, correct?


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[caduseus]

I would not mind pushing the ABV up a fair amount. I will leave out the citrus - my real hope was a honey and light blueberry taste. I was on the fence about the carbonation - I don't think it is necessary.

So, I formulate a number based on my honey, multiply by 1.25 and then divide by 2 because I am using fruit, correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes but follow the formula for TOSNA

 

[Squatchy]

I've never had to buffer the pH with potassium carb when I use Fermaid O. I've made more than 300 gallons and have never once had a stalled fermentation. It might be good insurance, but I have the mindset to not use anything unless you need to. I've had several batches go under 3.0 and still didn't cause the yeast to crap out. My hunch is that when Hightest started teaching peps to do that, part of what the old timers were up against were bad rehydration practices (among other things) so any help was good. As science has progressed and we have become so good at making/keeping our yeast so healthy, I personally don't think it's necessary now days. Unless you still haven't learned to not add acids up front. That could have also very well have been part of the problem.

 

[Dadux]

I've never had to buffer the pH with potassium carb when I use Fermaid O. I've made more than 300 gallons and have never once had a stalled fermentation. It might be good insurance, but I have the mindset to not use anything unless you need to. I've had several batches go under 3.0 and still didn't cause the yeast to crap out. My hunch is that when Hightest started teaching peps to do that, part of what the old timers were up against were bad rehydration practices (among other things) so any help was good. As science has progressed and we have become so good at making/keeping our yeast so healthy, I personally don't think it's necessary now days. Unless you still haven't learned to not add acids up front. That could have also very well have been part of the problem.

That makes sense. since fermentation is slower, less pH changes happen, specially if you degas. But depends on honey type and water quality too.
As you said its not bad as insurance, but might not always be necessary. And the potassium is good for the yeast.

 

[Dadux]

I would not mind pushing the ABV up a fair amount. I will leave out the citrus - my real hope was a honey and light blueberry taste. I was on the fence about the carbonation - I don't think it is necessary.

So, I formulate a number based on my honey, multiply by 1.25 and then divide by 2 because I am using fruit, correct?

I dont do many melomels but for a "light" blueberry taste, 1 gal of blueberries might be ok. Remember that if you add the fruit during fermentation you will have something like blueberry wine. The other option is to add it after the fermentation, which will give you a more blueberry flavour (more like the original fruit flavour. think wine vs grape flavour). Start at 1.100 SG for around 13% ABV (that'd be 12.5 lbs for 4.5 total volume, if you add some blueberries cut it to 12 lbs maybe). Does that sound better? There is a gotmead calculator you can sue to plan your batch aswell http://gotmead.com/blog/the-mead-calculator/

 

[AlwaysWaven]

Ok, so what I have now is -

1 gallon of blueberries
12.5 lbs of honey
10 grams of potassium bicarbonate
SG of 1.100
13%ABV


The TOSNA 2.0 Calculator - (which I cut in half because of blueberries)
Fermaid O Required: 29.75 g
Yeast Required: 10 g
Go Ferm Required: 12.5 g
One Third Sugar Break SG: 1.067

Dissolve 1.25 g of Go-Ferm Protect in 250 mL hot water (the hotter the better). The warmer the water, the easier it will be to dissolve the Go-Ferm.

When the water reaches 104 deg F (40 deg C), pour in 10 g yeast. Give the slurry a quick swirl. After 15 minutes, begin tempering yeast by adding 125 mL must to the yeast slurry every 5 minutes.When yeast slurry temperature is within 10 deg F of must temperature, pitch yeast into fermenter.

- Add 7.44 g Fermaid O 24-hours after yeast pitch. (half)
- At the 48 and 72 hour mark add 7.44 g Fermaid O. (half)
- The final nutrient addition of 7.43 g Fermaid O is on the 7th day after yeast pitch or when fermentation has reached its 1/3 sugar break (SG = 1.067), whichever comes first. (half)