New Glarus Belgian Red

[beninak]

Has anyone tried this beer? From what I understand, it isn't distributed outside of Wisconsin, but someone brought some to our homebrew club meeting last month and I have to say it was the most delicious cherry beverage I've ever had!!! It had a very fruity, cheery pie kind of taste but wasn't an over-the-top sweet flavor like most of the lambics I've tried. According to their website, and the blurb about it on ratebeer.com, they use a whole pound of Montmorrency cherries in every bottle, and yet it didnt taste overly tart either.

I've never tried making a belgian style beer before, but does anyone have any ideas on where to start to try to make a homebrewed clone of this beer?

 

[akueck]

Check out <a href="http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/">The Brewing Network</a>. They interviewed the New Glarus head brewer not long ago and there is a copy of the show online. (Sunday Session Jan 20) From what I remember, their cherry beer doesn't have the same set of bugs that a traditional lambic does.

I convinced my dad to buy a bottle (my family lives in WI). He wasn't so fond of it but I had some when I was there last. Yummy!

 

[nessa]

funny you should mention new glarus.

a member of my club has family out there, and (mom) fell in love with one of my meads while visiting.

this time she brought a bottle of new glarus with her so we traded WOW. i am not a beer drinker. the guys are always handing me stuff and saying "here you'll like this one". to which i reply yup tasts like beer!


i found a couple of recipes on homebrew.coms forum. not too sure about either one yet.
OG = 1065 (belgian strong ale) , FG 1020 5.7% abv- 25 - 30 ibu

first is from north american clone brews
1 lb pale
1 lb crystal 50 L
1 lb wheat (partial mash at 150degrees for 60 minutes, sparge 1 gallon at 170d)

6.75 lbs wheat LME
1 oz hallertau 5% aa (60 min)
1/2 teaspoon yeast nutrient, 15 min
6 lbs fresh cherries in secondary, yeast wyeast 3942 brlgian wheat.

second is more vague, all- grain
6 lb pale malt, 4 lb malted wheat, 1lb 50L crystal
boil 90 minutes, with 6AAu "aged hops any,
wyeast 3787 belgian strong ale, wyeast 3942 wheat, or recultured new glarus yeast

ferment at 65F for 2 weeks, and rack to sec on 6 lbs whole sweet cherries.
condition-cool at 50-55f for 3 -4 weeks. rack to clarify for 2 weeks, prime w/ 7/8 cup corn sugar. bottle and age at 55- 60 degrees for 3 weeks.

hope this helps (kinda) keep us posted if you brew it
nessa

 

[wildaho]

Hey beninak, here's another one for you to try:

Kasteel Rouge from Brouwerij Van Honsebrouck.

It's a belgian double fermented with cherries and weighs in at 9%. It's very well balanced and is great by itself or with a meal. Here's a review from RateBeer.

I've had several of the New Glarus beers and wish they were available here. The Cherry was definitely a favorite. The Frambozen wasn't too shabby either.

 

[Angus]

Living here in WI, I guess I am kind of lucky that I have access to all of the New Glarus beers. They are certainly one of my favorite breweries. I suggest you Email the brewer and ask for a recipe. He is a very nice guy, and I suspect will be more than happy to provide you with some details. Otherwise, you can request Brew Your Own magazine contact him and see if they can get the recipe.

Angus

P.S. My favorite is the Fat Squirrel Nut Brown. Almost certainly in the top three favorite beers of all time in my book.

 

[beninak]

Thanks for those recipes, Nessa! I might try the first one you listed sometime. The second one mentions sweet cherries, but I don't think that will be so good.

After listening to that Brewing Network show, I realized their head brewer would never give up his recipes. He seems really super secretive about what he does. It was still really informative though, I hope I get the chance to tour their brewery sometime!

 

[JB175]

I have to agree that the Belgian Red rocks.

There was a ratebeer thread last year that went over a Belgian red Clone: http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-81307.htm

Good luck!

 

[nessa]

okay i checked out the ratebeer.com site, and in the forums found 2 more recipes.

http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-81307.htm.

scroll down to the 7th and 9th poster. the 2nd recipe is supposed to be from zymurgy.

these 2 recipes seem closer to the real thing. on the new glarus site and bottle, it states that the Belgian red is made with wheat, and belgian roasted barleys. something that was missing from the first 2 recipes i posted.

also i listened to the podcast for the brewing network.

dan carey seems to have a thing for wiermans, breiss, and durst malts.
first they make a sour brown ale base, ferment it, then add the fruit, and age in a by now neutral (30+yrs old)oak wine vat with the lacto bas bugs.
nessa

 

[vahan]

hi there,
I hear such wonderful things about this beer that it makes me want to go to WI and try it! There was a clone published in the July/Aug issue of Zymurgy. Here is the partial mash form (5 U.S. gallons)

4lbs light male extract
1.5 lbs wheat malt extract
6 oz 40L crystal malt
0.5 oz Belgian roast barley (that seems like very little, but that's what is says)
4 quarts Knudson Just Tart Cherry Juice
1 oz Hallertauer hops, aged for 1 year 60 min
0.25 oz boiled, toasted oak chips
Belgian Wheat ale yeast
O.G. 1.057, F.G. 1.007-1.012

steep specialty grains 30 min at 150F, remove and add extracts. Bring to a boil and add hops. Boil 60 min.
Top up to 4 gallons and chill to 65 F before pitching yeast
When F.G. reached, rack onto 1 gallon cherry juice. COntinue fermentation at 65F for 1 week, then lager if possible for 4-6 wks at 32-35F. Add oak chips in the last week if you want.
Bottle with 0.75 cup corn sugar in 750mL champagne bottles or keg with moderate to high carbonation.

A little more involved then I like for my beers, but maybe I'll try it some day. If you do, let me know how it turns out.

cheers,
vahan

 

[Mu]

I have been doing allot of reading on this subject of late (Belgian beers). I highly recommend 'wildBREWS' by Jeff Sparrow as well as any book in that series. The other two books to read are 'farmhouse Ales' by phil Markowski and 'Brew like a Monk' by Stan Hieronymus. Those three books have changed the way I view beer.

Mu.

 

[beninak]

New Glarus Belgian Red plan of attack!

Ok so I've done some research based on the recipes you all have listed (thanks! ) and it seems like they don't quite match up to the cherry content that the Belgian Red is supposed to have. According to the Zymurgy article, you can add more cherry to the recipe but if you do that you should also add more malt to balance it. I've got a bunch of dries montmorrency cherries sitting around that I'd really like to use in this beer as well. The main question I have is: if I add more malt and cherries, should I add more hops as well? I'm also just guessing about how much extra malt it would take to balance the dried cherries...

Here is my plan based off of the recipes above, with my proposed changes in blue and misc. comments in red:

5lbs light malt extract
2 lbs wheat malt extract
6 oz 40L crystal malt
0.5 oz Belgian roast barley (that seems like very little, but that's what is says)
4 quarts Knudson Just Tart Cherry Juice
40 oz. dried cherries, rehydrated in above mentioned juice ^^
1.25 oz Hallertauer hops, aged (in my fridge) for 1 year 60 min
0.25 oz boiled, toasted oak cubes why boil them? and what variety/toast would work best?
Belgian Wheat ale yeast
O.G. 1.057, F.G. 1.007-1.012

steep specialty grains 30 min at 150F, remove and add extracts. Bring to a boil and add hops. Boil 60 min.
Top up to 4 gallons and chill to 65 F before pitching yeast
When F.G. reached, rack onto 1 gallon cherry juice and rehydrated cherries. Continue fermentation at 65F for 1 week, then lager for 4-6 wks at 35F.
Add oak chips in the last week.
Bottle with 0.75 cup corn sugar in 750mL champagne bottles. Are the champagne bottles really necessary? If so, I've got to get a case of champagne and start drinking....

 

[wildaho]

Hmmm, tough call on how much malt to add to balance the cherries. 40 oz. dried is quite a bit, that's two and a half pounds! How does that translate into re-hydrated fruit?

The roasted barley is probably added just to darken the brew a little bit. At that concentration it will contribute more color than flavor. Using real fruit may eliminate the need for it. But then again, just think how a little boost in roastiness would ride against the cherries! Mmmmm.... It's been too long since I've the NG so I don't remember the roast level.

Hallertauer are pretty gentle hops (2%-5% AA). They are going to be even more gentle after a year of aging. A quarter of an ounce won't make much difference although it's proportional to your malt increase. I'd go ahead and use a full ounce extra to also compensate for your cherries.

0.25 oz of oak seems rather anemic. Think about how the vanillin will ride with the cherries. And I wouldn't boil them either.

Yeast: I read somewhere (one of those cross reference charts out there on the interweb thingy) that the Wyeast Mead yeast was derived from the Hooegaarden Wit strain? Interesting if true!

With your boost in malt your OG will be about 10 points higher. I have no idea what the additional cherries will do.

I think the champagne bottles are more for show than for go. The New Glarus comes in champagne bottles (at least the one I had many years ago did) so you should be fine with standard bottles. That sugar dosage is pretty much standard for around 2 - 2.5 volumes of carbonation. But, if you need an excuse to drink champagne, go for it!

Man, as I was typing out my thoughts on this I started drooling! It's given me all kinds of ideas for a brew of my own, somewhere between the New Glarus and the Kasteel I mentioned earlier.

Just my thoughts. Cheers!
Wade

 

[nessa]

for the hops... IIRC the oak barrel that New Glarus uses has had a long life. from what they said in the interview, the barrel was practically neutral. that may be why it was reccomended to boil, otherwise fresh oak could over power everything else (or reduce exposure time drastically)

of course this is just a guess on my part. i have no real experience with oak yet.
nessa

 

[beninak]

Good points, guys.

Wildaho, you convinced me to use at least 1/2 oz extra hops and a couple oz more roasted barley. Honestly I have no idead how 40 oz. dried cherries translates into fresh fruit. I think I remember reading somewhere that in general dried fruit is a 1:4 or 1:5 substitution ratio, but that maybe just internet hearsay.

Nessa, you've probably got a good point about boiling the oak to simulate the effects of a well-used barrel. Personally that just seems like the waste of some good oak cubes though so I think I may just rinse them really well and then soak them in cold water for a day or so to leech off the harsher charred flavors before I use them.

Yeast: I went to the LHBS today to pick up my ingredients, and was befuddled by their yeast selection. I've never made any type of Belgian before so I had absolutely no idea there were so many Belgian-style yeast choices for the homebrewer! After much deliberation I narrowed it down to two: Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong, and Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend. Don't ask me why...

Ok if you must know 1388 seemed like a good all-purpose Belgian yeast, especially if I am going to be upping the malt content. And the 3278 because, well, although I know this isn't going to be a Lambic I thought maybe this would help to accentuate the cherry flavors.

I'm leaning towards the 1388 to ferment in the primary, and then maybe adding the Lambic blend when I rack it on top of the cherries. Any thoughts?

 

[akueck]

From what I remember, New Glarus doesn't use the traditional lambic strains. So you can certainly go that route but you'll wind up with a different beer. Personally it sounds like a great idea to use the 1388 first. Taste it and if you want to, add the lambic blend.

For the oak, I would maybe suggest using a med+ toast and not bothering soaking them ahead of time. Add them late in the game in a sack so you can pull them out when you want. Some oak flavors would have made the NG beer better, IMO.

Good luck! If it works I'll have to copy you.