Out of Africa

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Yes.

There were civilizations in sub Saharan Africa, and Not all Northern Hemisphere peoples were what we would call technically advanced. Indigenous Californians didn't even have pottery, and lived extremely primitive--technologically, not culturally--lives.

I do not recall ever reading that the many groups of indigenous Californians ever fermented honey, however...or anything else? I can't remember, but I'm going to look into it.
 
Thanks, Wayne. Good points.

I'm sorry, ssteufelhund, but that White History stuff is some seriously flawed material. One could even think Arthur Kemp was flaming, lunatic, bat-guano crazy, virtually entirely unconnected to reality as we know it.

Anthropology is full of lunatic, bat-guano crazy people and their theories, thats why the field is so much fun. Then people had to come along and introduce field experiments, physical evidence, scientific analysis and ruin it for those of us who prefer butterfly collecting... ;-)
 
Yes.

There were civilizations in sub Saharan Africa, and Not all Northern Hemisphere peoples were what we would call technically advanced. Indigenous Californians didn't even have pottery, and lived extremely primitive--technologically, not culturally--lives.

I do not recall ever reading that the many groups of indigenous Californians ever fermented honey, however...or anything else? I can't remember, but I'm going to look into it.

I don´t know which group is older, Californian or Maya, but when spaniards explored Yucatan 500 years ago they found that Mayas made mead and they call it "Balche".

But thinking about Africa, Why not? Maybe in that time they obtained the "beverage" not deliberately, but accidentally. And may be it took a lot of time before they figured it out and could replicate the process, and I am sure that they did not know which "element" has the magic power, so it is posible that they use not only one element, but a mix of colected elements, and yes, honey should be one of them.

Well, all this is speculation, but I like it !!!

Noe
 
Hello all --

My ISP was down so I wasn't able to join in at the start of this thread. Interesting discussion! It makes sense to look to Africa as the beginning place for the makings of fermented beverages.

I've posted on this before so this is sort of a recap, but I remain skeptical that mead was the first of all fermented beverages. I'm equally skeptical of wine, or beer. That might sound like I'm in disagreement with the main points but hear me out. I'm actually butressing them.

Something that is important in historical studies of any kind is to avoid the pitfall of what has been called "the etymological fallacy." It's the natural tendency to use modern day concepts and categories to interpret ancient records and artifacts.

This would apply to wine, beer and mead. With the impact of the importance of the scientific method and historical consciousness as part of the modern Western civilization mindset, we tend to apply these three categories fairly strictly. When we look for instances of meadmaking in ancient cultures, we tend to look for what we would today call a mead. It's not necessarily so!

I want to suggest a different approach to this question, and it's something I've been posting on over the years -- rather than look for mead as the first fermented beverage, look for the use of honey. This would amount to a paradigm shift, in the sense which Thomas S. Kuhn meant it.

Take a look here:

http://www.iconocast.com/B000000000000075/Z5/News1_1.jpg

Is this a picture of two faces, or a wine goblet? This is the kind of shift I'm talking about in changing from looking for mead as the first of fermented beverages, to the use of honey in the very earliest makings of fermented beverages.

The Jiahu beverage is a good example. It was made from rice, hawthorne or grape, and honey. What is it? It's neither wine, beer nor mead. It's a fermented beverage created by an ancient Neolithic culture, and unique to that culture. If we could have a conversation with these ancient people, they would be puzzled if we called it a mead. They would be even more puzzled with Asians who may want to argue that this the earliest example of rice wine.

Ancient peoples made fermented beverages from whatever source was at hand, and they weren't interested in modern categories. They didn't set out to make a wine, beer or mead, they made a beverage from available materials. The Jiahu beverage, again, is a good example of this.

So, to recap, neither wine, nor beer, nor mead was "the first." Honey is a ubiquitous food stuff, and certainly would have been used at the very beginning of the makings of fermented beverages. In that sense, as meadmakers, we can count ourselves as members of this most ancient of crafts, the making of fermented beverages using honey, going back to times before written history and even the most ancient of hunter gather cultures. In other words, we as meadmakers are a smaller group of an even wider culture which has roots in the most ancient beginnings of mankind.

Shifting back to Africa -- I've had some very interesting conversations with Garth Cambray in the past on this subject. Garth runs a meadery in South Africa, producing meads based on the meadmaking methods of the San people, among the most ancient of peoples in Africa. He pointed out to me the commonality of words based on mead and meadmaking in so many of the African languages, indicating the antiquity of mead making in ancient Africa.

http://www.iqhilika.co.za/

Studies of the San people and their culture, including their rock paintings, can give important clues to the antiquity of the use of honey in ancient fermented beverages. These people would have been among the earliest makers of honey based beverages, and, looking at their meadmaking practices today, even a beverage that we would today call a mead.

Of course, it's always difficult to prove this with certainty. The scientific method, and validity of scientific theory, depends on whether or not an idea or theortical hypothesis can be falsified. No matter how far back in ancient history we go, there will always be the possibility that an artifact showing an early instance of meadmaking can be falsified by the finding of an even older artifact showing something else.

It might be helpful here to point out that there are actually two approaches to "truth" in science. In the broadest sense, these are whether or not the theory predicts, or whether the theory interprets. The former category, prediction value, has become overarching in the understanding of what science is all about, to the point of excluding theories that best interpret the facts. The latter category applies best, with some modifications, to the historical sciences, or even the human sciences.

So, that's another point -- we should be careful of predictive approaches to historical questions like these, remembering that predictive theories can be falsified by the next archaeological finding. There is the broader picture of interpretative theories. pulling together inferences from a broad spectrum of evidence. I think that the latter approach can help add a more solid foundation to speculations on the beginnings of the makings of fermented beverages.

I'm also careful with the use of "firsts" -- too much of a focus on "firsts" has the danger of bringing the inquiry to something like an Adam and Eve scenario, or falling into the language of mythology.

Honey? It's always been there, and would have quickly been used as a food stuff in the earliest hunting and gathering societies. But so have the other fermentables, including stored materials. The first use of alcoholic fermentation may not have even been a beverage, for all we know, and it likely wasn't the discovery of a single individual, or small group of individuals. For ancient mankind, a very keen observer of nature, the discovery of alcoholic fermentation would have been as easy as falling off a log. Lots of people probably discovered it, even in the earliest of prehistoric times.

Hope this wasn't too long, or too controversial. I'm with Ken 100% on this, but also want to keep the inquiry as broad and as objective as possible.
 
Dan,

Your points are excellent and as usual, well thought out. I am in complete agreement with your basic premise that our "categorizations," while handy for us to provide a modern context within which we can begin to understand these ancient discoveries, also serve to limit our ability to appreciate those discoveries in their original context.
 
I don´t know which group is older, Californian or Maya, but when spaniards explored Yucatan 500 years ago they found that Mayas made mead and they call it "Balche".

But thinking about Africa, Why not? Maybe in that time they obtained the "beverage" not deliberately, but accidentally. And may be it took a lot of time before they figured it out and could replicate the process, and I am sure that they did not know which "element" has the magic power, so it is posible that they use not only one element, but a mix of colected elements, and yes, honey should be one of them.

Well, all this is speculation, but I like it !!!

Noe

A lot of the "creation myths" for alcoholic beverages include some mystical aspect (the blood, saliva etc of a god, the magic brew stick passed down for generations). And these beverages were important enough to figure into rituals which would again point to the magic (transformation, metamorphosis) of fermentation. Heck, even modern religion uses wine as ritual (hello Catholicism).

So, which came first--alcohol or religion? We need an anthropology grad student. :)
 
Wouldn't be at all surprised that they were more or less simultaneous--and there are other things that people have taken as intoxicants that aren't as nice as wine to ingest.

While it is absolutely true that one must take care against using today to explain the unexplainable of yesterday (many objects of unknown use are classified as "ritual" instead of just what they are, "unknown"), it is also safe to say that some things don't change. The first thing humans do in any new place is look for fermentables, and that has been going on for a long time, longer than there were ways to write it down. Once you figure out that sweet stuff can ferment to produce a tasty--and intoxicant--food, you're going to try it with any sweet substance you have at your disposal.

The problem, of course, is that looking at it from a cultural perspective you can easily say "It probably happened that way because it makes sense and there's no evidence against it." However, from a more rigorous scientific perspective, you need some evidence for it, or it becomes a "Just-so" story, and the empiricist in me has to reject that--regretfully. Speculation is delightful, just don't lose sight of what it is.

Fruit will ferment on the vine, on the ground, and it's not a long stretch at all to envision a paleolithic gatherer seeing animals eat it and wonder what there was about it that had the animals choosing that particular fruit. Another short step to collecting it yourself, mixing it with other fruit in a wooden bowl, waterbag, etc., and seeing what happens. Unfortunately, although the scientific method had been invented, there was no written language to record it for posterity, and we are left--so far at any rate--in the dark about the origins of mead, as well as its possible ascendancy to other fermented drinks.

/anthro grad years long ago and not in archeology specifically
 
The first thing humans do in any new place is look for fermentables, and that has been going on for a long time, longer than there were ways to write it down. Once you figure out that sweet stuff can ferment to produce a tasty--and intoxicant--food, you're going to try it with any sweet substance you have at your disposal.

you're very correct in that the first thing people did was look for fermentable. But I think it may have been to secure something safe to drink. Don't forget, many fresh water sources are not safe to drink without some sort of treatment.
 
Hello all --

...Hope this wasn't too long, or too controversial. I'm with Ken 100% on this, but also want to keep the inquiry as broad and as objective as possible.

Not to worry, Dan. I fondly remember several pre-lights-out conversations we had in the room we shared at the Outlook a few years back (we missed you this year). McGovern and company are making it pretty clear that early fermentation came down to whatever was around, had some sugar in it, and (probably eventually) was tasty by comparison with the alternatives. I recall us both having issues with the nature of modern semantics, and the fact that there are some who will categorize anything alcoholic with honey in it as mead - that situation not being helped at all by beverages such as Bunratty "Meade." On the other hand, if it's not mead, per se, then what is it, and what's with these word things, anyway?

That said, there is some compelling logic to lead in the direction of honey being a critical component in early "brews", that being the ability to boost the potential alcohol level of the fermentable must to the point where improved long term stability might be obtained. Given the massively un-sanitary conditions in which early fermentations would have occured, the ability to reach the highest possible alcohol content would have been critical to having something that would remain palatable, or even alcoholic, for more than a few days. The volume of fermentables, and the size of the potential brew lengths, could easily have been large enough to make that a very desirable circumstance.

In essence, honey, being the only controllable source of concentrated sugar, becomes the chaptalizer of necessity. At the point where that becomes known and followed practice, we now are talking about the "discovery" of controlled fermentation, and not simply the spontaneous metamorphosis of sugar-containing compounds into ETOH in the presence of humans. Yes, that absolutely could have happened anywhere that there were humans. My thought/post tries to account for the interesting coincidence of honey being in two different early fermentations and recipes in two disparate geographic locations.

The more I think about it, though, the possibility of the cross-pollination of that knowledge across the required geographic expanses looks like no big deal, especially when you consider the time frames of the out migration as opposed to the dates of the fermentations we're talking about here.

An interesting expansion on the notion of multi-disciplinary examination of human history came to me from Dr. W. G. Davey, who was looking at "Mead and Wine. A History of the Bronze Age in Greece," by Jean Zafiropulo, Translated from the French by Peter Green. Davey noted in an email that, "His basic point is that the only way that early man had to escape pain and other woes was drunkeness, first with mead (called hydromel) and then later with wine." This repeated mythology of mead pre-dating wine across different cultures is something I will be exploring.

Davey is one heck of an interesting guy in his own right; the former director of the Energy Division at a little joint called Los Alamos, and a prolific student of mythologies from the primary sources. No intellectual lightweight, he, methinks. Have a look at this and this for a good overview of his ideas. He has some work out on Kindle books that may push me to buy one.

Ken
 
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Thanks for that Ken. I missed seeing everyone out at the Outlook also. Those were some great times when I was able to make it out to Chicago, and later Boulder for the meadfests.

Those links look great -- I'll have to look them over more thoroughly later on.

Something else I should have thrown in on my post above, a study of rock paintings showing history of honey hunting in general would also be helpful. I know you've got Edith Crane's World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting and have seen all the good nuggets of info there. It helps show how universal honey hunting was in the ancient world, and likewise all the uses for honey.

Another good one is Claude Levi-Strauss' Ashes to Honey, and Alcohol in Ancient Mexico by Henry Bruman. Both authors outline regions in South America and Mexico where mead making was dominant.

But back to Africa, it's the cradle of the human race, along with the making of the earliest human products and artifacts. The San people could very well have been the earliest of meadmakers.
 
Davey is one heck of an interesting guy in his own right; the former director of the Energy Division at a little joint called Los Alamos, and a prolific student of mythologies from the primary sources. No intellectual lightweight, he, methinks. Have a look at this and this for a good overview of his ideas. He has some work out on Kindle books that may push me to buy one.

Ken, those links are extremely interesting. The TITI comparison floored me. It makes perfect sense that some very fundamental (and desirable :) ) things would have carried names that filtered down to the offshoot branch languages.

I wonder if he has every considered running such a comparison on the words for honey. For early humans, that too would have been very desirable, and worth talking about.
 
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I don´t know which group is older, Californian or Maya, but when spaniards explored Yucatan 500 years ago they found that Mayas made mead and they call it "Balche".

Sorry to drop in this discussion so late, but I thought I read that honey bees aren't native to the America's. Is this true or did I remember this incorrectly?

Also, I'm reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel" right now. It's made me wish that someone would write a similar book on alcoholic beverages. You know, different people solving the apparent human need for alcohol production, differently due to the different environments they discovered themselves in. And then cultures replacing other cultures and bringing their alcohol technology with them.

But, alas, apart from last few hundred years, I suspect that there isn't enough reasonably certain info out there to create such a work. Maybe this will change somehow are archeology advances, I hope so.
 
Hey Syme;

While Apis mellifera is not native to the Americas, there are other honey producing, stingless bees, Melipona and Trigona, that are native to Central and South America. They don't produce in the same quantity that A. mellifera does, but they can be domesticated, and were and still are put to work producing honey. And pretty much everywere they were found, there was some form of fermented honey beverage.

I loved "Guns, Germs and Steel." Diamond is a serious intellect. "Collapse" is good, too.

Ken
 
I really liked Guns... as well, though I thought it got really repetitive. He laid out his hypothesis really well in the first third of the book or so, then did it again, and again, simply changing one small detail. Still a very interesting read, if hard to get to the end. Omnivore's Dilemma I had similar issues with.

I liked Sacred & Herbal Healing Beers. Obviously it is titled "beer" but it broadly talks about native versions of all sorts of alcoholic drinks, the method of manufacture, etc. Some very interesting recipes too, one of these days I'd like to try making some nettle wine. :)
 
Syme, have you read History of the World in 6 Glasses? As I recall it doesn't mention mead specifically (my son "borrowed" my copy of the book and hasn't returned it), but it does talk about how drink--not just alcohol--has influenced history. Not exhaustively, but interestingly.1010

I hadn't heard about this book. It's looks very interesting (I also consume alot of tea and coffee). I'll look to get this one soon. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
While Apis mellifera is not native to the Americas, there are other honey producing, stingless bees, Melipona and Trigona, that are native to Central and South America. They don't produce in the same quantity that A. mellifera does, but they can be domesticated, and were and still are put to work producing honey. And pretty much everywere they were found, there was some form of fermented honey beverage.

Ok, good info.


I loved "Guns, Germs and Steel." Diamond is a serious intellect. "Collapse" is good, too.
Ken

I have really enjoyed the book, although I've had a few issues with it. He is truly an intellectual giant. Overall, I cannot imagine how a human could possibly accumulate that much info for a book like that over the course of even an entire life.