Polyproplyne #5 Foodsafe buckets

[DunnBrewery]

Hi all
First let me say what a wealth of knowledge this site has been for me! I used to make mead back when i was about 15(yes i know bad boy) and working in a bakery. We used to get (and know they still use) PP code 5 plastic buckets to store jam and fondant for long periods of time. This is what i made my first batches in,mind you minimal aging;D,anyway,now almost 18yrs later i have just got the bug again and was wondering what,if any, affects PP would have on aging Mead to an age of about 6mths max before bottling? I have at the moment 2 20ltr buckets and can easily get more. i know this has been gone over before but what i can see in reference to HDPE.

Sorry for the long post but am very curious.
O and BTW, the mead i have going is a Iron Bark honey mead with just a touch of cinnamon. has been going for about 2wks and is a 15ltr water jug i procured. On racking it the other day tasted superb and fermenting nicely.

Again thanks in advance
Craig
Melbourne
Australia

 

[wayneb]

Welcome to the Gotmead community, Craig! Polypro is actually a good, non-reactive plastic for food storage, given that it is stable at relatively high temperatures. However, for a given thickness, it is significantly more oxygen permeable than HDPE. That's why there are no commercial fermentation or aging vessels made from Polypro.

That said, it is difficult to predict exactly what 6 months of storage would do to a mead kept in a Polypro bucket. I would think that the oxygen transfer into the mead would be even greater at the liquid/air boundary than through the wall, simply because it is difficult to get a perfectly airtight lid for wide mouthed buckets.

So, I would predict (though I don't have experimental data to back it up) that you would begin to notice the effects of oxidation in your mead at the 6 mo point. Signs would include a somewhat "sherry," or raisiny taste, and a slight browning. If this were for a melomel, especially if made with dark red fruit, I'd expect some of the color to fade and much of the fruit character to be replaced by a taste faintly reminiscent of wet cardboard. Fruits do not stand up to oxidiation nearly as well as traditional meads.

Oh, and please "pin" yourself on the Gotmead Member Map! We have several Aussies active in the forum, but only one seems to want us to know where he is, so Qld is artificially over-represented at the moment!

 

[DunnBrewery]

Cheers Wayneb and thanks for the welcome!
Didint really know alot of air could transfer through the walls of PP only because of the amount of time jam and fondant was stored in them. I know im being a bit cheap not buying glass carboys(have to justify the expense to the Ministry of War) so what about primary,secondary and even tertiary racking at the 3 month periods? I know leaving it to sit in bulk is a prefered method But if i rack it once every three months to bring it of the lees and to help clarify that will give it 9 months total but in a different bucket for only 3 months in a single bucket? Im going to buy glass eventually, but just want to keep it as cheap as possible until she who must be obeyed gets use to the idea of Homebrew.
o and how do i pin my location?? Cant have QLD getting all the glory!
Cheers

 

[DunnBrewery]

Ahh dont worry bout that..just pinned myself up....brain just started to work..Hooray!

 

[Medsen Fey]

so what about primary,secondary and even tertiary racking at the 3 month periods? I know leaving it to sit in bulk is a prefered method But if i rack it once every three months to bring it of the lees and to help clarify that will give it 9 months total but in a different bucket for only 3 months in a single bucket? Im going to buy glass eventually....

Welcome to GotMead Craig!

Remember, the future is now!
You need a container for aging mead that will protect it from oxygen. The plastic bucket is fine for a primary fermenter, but not for aging several months. You'd actually be better off using fining agents (a little Sparkolloid maybe) and bottling it after a few weeks rather than leaving it in a bucket. In a bottle it will be protected from air. If you want to bulk age, you need either a glass carboy, a stainless steel Cornelius keg (or similar container), or a PET plastic Better Bottle. Here is the U.S. you can get a keg or carboy for under $30 so it doesn't take a huge investment.

I didn't quite understand your racking plan, but typically I'll rack about every 3 months until it stops dropping sediment.

I hope you get some great mead, and it is good to see the international contingent growing.

Medsen

 

[DunnBrewery]

Thanks Medsen.

Sorry if i was a bit vague just woke up over here. Basically the same racking plan as yourself. As for the future being now,trying telling the missus that!heheh

Carboys and the like are a bit more expensive over here( starting from about $80 from the research i have done) doesnt seem like much but when on a tight budget it is.
anyway im trying to wrangle the hand that holds the purse strings in the near future so all good. Thanks for the welcome and yep i hope i get and continue to brew great mead for many moons to come
Cheers
Craig

 

[wayneb]

Craig,

I think I get your racking plan... you were asking if doing the rack-over every 3 months would minimise the oxygen transfer -- sorry, it doesn't work that way. O2 is slowly percolating though that apparently solid plastic wall continuously, so the racking into new Polypro containers would do nothing to help you out.

And the reason they store jams, fondant, and similar bulk foodstuff in Polypro is that those items are nowhere near as oxygen sensitive as wines, meads and the like.

I second Medsen's suggestion. Once fermentation is complete (and be sure of that by testing the final specific gravity - it would not be good to find corks popping and bottles blowing because fermentation restarted inadvertently once you've bottled), fine it with something to clarify the young mead, and then bottle as soon as you can. It will age better in glass, in small bottles or bulk in a carboy, than it would in those buckets.

BTW - nice avatar! And its good to see your family motto in the sig... there are Dunns in my wife's family tree, too!

 

[DunnBrewery]

Thanks Wayneb, thats what i was asking! I have just been ringing round my local brew shops to find some prices on better bottles, so it looks like ive got 2 mixing buckets and will procure a couple of 23ltr better bottles to ferment in.
Its amazing how much info you can learn with a few posts on this forum! Much appreciated.
p.s you know we Dunns are a good bunch then!

well i just got of the phone and will be getting the first 23ltr better bottle on monday! had to explain to the Ministry of War that the buckets wouldnt be good enough. So to the brew shop i go!
O and i only got the go ahead cos i quoted the Gotmead information(so i sounded like i knew what i was on about)
Thanks again guys

wayneb, Polish i see!