Purple potatoes and other fun things to do with starches

[Gardenmead]

(I love how this thread has mutated)

I actually have had vodka from purple sweet potatoes but there was no color in it. That is why they had to make a big deal at this restaurant about it, explaining it to customers because you couldn't distinguish it otherwise...

Wayneb's recipe includes honey though so it is still a mead ( the basic recipe is posted on the original thread)

I'll either use commercial alpha amylase or some diastatic malt to augment the diastatic activity from some of the honey, which will provide the enzymes necessary for the starch to sugar conversion.

I didn't know you could buy alpha amylase? Is it just concentrated, highly enzymatic wort? Or what.. That could be useful

 

[akueck]

I bought it as a powder, sometimes it comes in liquid form. The Convertase I bought is liquid, but that is slightly different from what you'll normally see labeled "amylase". As far as I know, it is a purified extract which very often comes from fungus, so it's sort of like penicillin in how it gets to you (minus the doctor).

 

[Gardenmead]

As far as I know, it is a purified extract which very often comes from fungus

Ohhhh. Ok, so it is derived from fungi like those used to convert starches in the brewing of sake? That makes more sense

 

[wayneb]

Geeze - I leave the forum for a couple of hours and LOOK at what happens! ;D

Oskaar, thanks for splitting this off. It is a great discussion, although clearly not related to salty mead!

I do plan on trying to preserve as much of the color from those potatoes as possible in my resulting mead, so I will not be distilling. BTW - I found a cool book excerpt online that talks about starch to sugar conversion in potatoes, and how best to ferment those sugars so as not to introduce off flavors. Apparently when you ferment whole potatoes (leaving in the residual plant "gunk" along with the extracted potato must) you get lots of yucky tasting stuff along with the ethanol - may be products from the inner skin layer of the potatoes, which are known to be sources of potentially toxic (in high enough concentration) alkaloids. That may be why potato vodkas were traditionally the first ones to rely on multiple passes through a still. Hmmm.

BTW, the copyright on that original book was 1908. Some of this information has been around for a while!

 

[wayneb]

Ohhhh. Ok, so it is derived from fungi like those used to convert starches in the brewing of sake? That makes more sense

Yup - and there are hundreds of species of fungi that produce the enzymes necessary for this conversion. It is part of why they make such good bio-recyclers! But the genus of fungus most often used to produce commercial amylases is called aspergillus. (Possibly useful information for your next Trivial Pursuit endeavor!)

 

[Kee]

Does anyone have a good reference for fermenting with just potatoes, such as a good basics book? I'm missing a lot of what's being said, but I this was one my very long term to do list. The learning curve just gets steeper and steeper as I find out more and more things I want to learn/ didn't know I didn't know.

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

Well... yes... but no. Microwave ovens cook by using what I think is termed "dielectric heating". Essentially the molecules align themselves in one field, then another, then another, etc. This bumping and moving around causes things to heat up, which is generating heat that isn't different than say, over a fire, it's just a different process. It's semi analogous to various brain imaging techniques, where atoms are aligned in various fields. My point is, microwave ovens are using a different technique to heat food than "conventional cooking", but the end result isn't going to be different. Microwave ovens are scientifically awesome in my opinion.

Pretty much, yes. The heat from "microscopic waves" is generated through molecular vibration (flipping back and forth at super-high speed), which can easily tear apart molecules that are held together via hydrogen bonding, and to a lesser extent, covelant bonds. As the result, certain trace nutritional elements are lost from the food and copious amounts of free radicals are formed, which can damage tissue and interupt metabolic pathways.

I realize it's not a proven science since there is no money in nutritional health promotion, and that people don't want to give up their conveneince, but to tie this back into the subject, I feel that using raw foods or macrothermal heat sources in food preparation yields a better finished product, though the difference may be subtle to some.

Just my 2 cents. Agreeing with me is not a requirement.

 

[Shanecb]

Pretty much, yes. The heat from "microscopic waves" is generated through molecular vibration (flipping back and forth at super-high speed), which can easily tear apart molecules that are held together via hydrogen bonding, and to a lesser extent, covelant bonds. As the result, certain trace nutritional elements are lost from the food and copious amounts of free radicals are formed, which can damage tissue and interupt metabolic pathways.

I realize it's not a proven science since there is no money in nutritional health promotion, and that people don't want to give up their conveneince, but to tie this back into the subject, I feel that using raw foods or macrothermal heat sources in food preparation yields a better finished product, though the difference may be subtle to some.

Just my 2 cents. Agreeing with me is not a requirement.

Fair enough. What we would really need to find on the subject is some hard data, as you said. Until then we can agree to disagree I still think food cooked over an open fire tastes the best, but maybe that's just because the whole experience of cooking over an open fire I enjoy!

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

I still think food cooked over an open fire tastes the best, but maybe that's just because the whole experience of cooking over an open fire I enjoy!

Now THAT's something I agree with 100%!

On a side note, some foods are made more bioavailable through fermentation. One famous example is soy (miso, tempeh, etc.)

Getting back to the subject, I'm sure the Russians would have argued that potatos are more bioavailable when fermented, too.

 

[wayneb]

Now THAT's something I agree with 100%!

On a side note, some foods are made more bioavailable through fermentation. One famous example is soy (miso, tempeh, etc.)

Getting back to the subject, I'm sure the Russians would have argued that potatos are more bioavailable when fermented, too.

We ARE in complete agreement - we should cook foods in ways that make them taste best! ;D

But keep in mind that the cultures in central and south america had potato tubers to play with long before they were "exported" to old Europe. I wonder what interesting things they did with fermentation that have been lost to us because they didn't record them in a preservable manner? I find the niche subject of beverage archaeology intriguing ever since I read the papers about the Jiahu province (China) discovery a few years back, BTW. Fermenting potatoes is just one more way that I think we can get back to our alcoholic beverage roots. (Yeah - I know - another pun. In this case I'm not trying to start another pun thread. But if anyone is so inclined....)

 

[akueck]

Fair enough. What we would really need to find on the subject is some hard data, as you said. Until then we can agree to disagree I still think food cooked over an open fire tastes the best, but maybe that's just because the whole experience of cooking over an open fire I enjoy!

Watch out, people now claim that food cooked with high heat (like fire) is full of carcinogens.

Cancer is so tasty!

 

[Oskaar]

So now when my server asks how I want my Ribeye, instead of my usual response "Burnt and Bloody" I'll just say "Cancered"

I like it!

A.A. I understand what you're saying and I'm a strong believer in "to each their own" so we can agree to disagree. When there's supportive empirical scientific substance we can begin the debate anew.

And for the record, I prefer my meat cooked "burnt and bloody" on my barbeque over hardwood embers and fire!

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[wildaho]

So now when my server asks how I want my Ribeye, instead of my usual response "Burnt and Bloody" I'll just say "Cancered"

I like it!

A.A. I understand what you're saying and I'm a strong believer in "to each their own" so we can agree to disagree. When there's supportive empirical scientific substance we can begin the debate anew.

And for the record, I prefer my meat cooked "burnt and bloody" on my barbeque over hardwood embers and fire!

Cheers,

Oskaar

Nice pic Pete!

And I have to agree with the "to each his own" part.

Until there is empirical evidence, versus "feel good" or (god forbid) religious or other myths, I will go with what works for me. The stuff I've learned here has blown away many a myth. I kind of like my 1-2 week ferments for 16-20% meads that have have happened since I started following the advice here.

And on the charred meat thing: Yes, there are more carcinogens in smoke cured and charred meat. That has been proven. But what at what levels? I haven't seen a study yet that links BBQ'd meat to cancer; only that charring leads to things that "might" lead to cancer. So will the water you drink...

And Wayne, I'm still waiting to hear back from the Idaho Potato Commision on sources for the purple potatoes. Found a few recipes but no sources yet. I'm not giving up yet though.

:cheers:
Wade

 

[Oskaar]

Oskaar <--- Oblivious . . . Party of One!

So all this purple potato talk has pretty much just whizzed past me as I'm careening down my own path concentration on my current batches and wine.

So, on purple potatoes . . . We get them here in SoCo pretty frequently through the course of the year. Being a guy who comes from a family of people who love potatoes I usually get about two or three of them and two or three Yukon Gold, clean them, cube them and then fry them up in olive oil to go with my eggs and murdered swine for breakfast!

The ones I get are purple like beets (more to the blue than red side of purple) all the way through from the skin to the center. They taste great with breakfast swine, eggs and coffee. So, that's my current exposure and acumen on purple potatoes.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[wildaho]

The ones I get are purple like beets (more to the blue than red side of purple) all the way through from the skin to the center. They taste great with breakfast swine, eggs and coffee. So, that's my current exposure and acument on purple potatoes.

Definitely more on the indigo side than purple after heat is applied. Think new blue jeans with a hint of red but not so dark or intense.

 

[wayneb]

Yup - Those are the Purple Peruvians!

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

Watch out, people now claim that food cooked with high heat (like fire) is full of carcinogens.

Cancer is so tasty!

There's a common coenzyme in human cell division that's been consumed as an herbal health tonic for thousands of years by the Chinese. The coenzyme is found in astralagus root. (It assists the enzyme that maintains telomere length, for the uber-geek biologists out there.)

Because it is a coenzyme involved in cell division, the FDA has labeled it a carcinogen, hence it can't be used in modern medicine here in the USA.
(picks up hammer, hits head with it repeatedly.)

And people wonder why I dropped out of that stupid Cell and Molecular PhD program.

 

[wayneb]

But it is readily available in "dietary supplements," that convenient loophole that allows us access to things that are not formal medicines, but are not overtly toxic, either. ;D

 

[Angelic Alchemist]

But it is readily available in "dietary supplements," that convenient loophole that allows us access to things that are not formal medicines, but are not overtly toxic, either. ;D

Which in turn allows a loophole for quality control (or lack thereof) since said suppliments are not normally regulated by the FDA.

Any luck scoring those potatos?

 

[wayneb]

Any luck scoring those potatos?

Not yet....