Questions about larger batches

[Servius82]

So I am new to mead making and have been experimenting with different batches. I tried just a plain that turned out way to dry for my liking (champagne yeast indeed!), a ginger orange that was more ginger then orange (whoops, 5 oz ginger to a gal might just be a little to much), a herb one that we just wont mention, and then the reason I am here, a spice mead. I will list the recipe at then end, and before anyone says it... yes i know, I dont need that much honey. I had a new scale that I misread and then failed to math right, and ya... it was just a bad day all in all HAHA. Also, I am sure I dont need the raisins (from what I have read it really doesn't do much?) but someone told me to add them so I did... And Finally, yes I know 1 pack of yeast is good for 5 gallons. but it cant hurt to use that much yeast right? I mean it just helps it get there faster right? In my defense tho, for being a noob, it did turn out amazing.

So my questions are, how do you scale up for larger batches? How do you know? Where do you(/can I) find this information? All my friends and family want me to make them some so I was thinking about making a larger batch vs how I have been doing it. I have been making it, but I have been making it 1 gallon at a time. (I have 4 x 1 gallon batches going right now.)

I know from what I have read and from the ginger incident that you can have too much of something in a batch and that is what I want to avoid. So how do I figure this out? I wrote down a simple table of 1,5,10,25, and 50 across the top and then the ingredients down the left side and just multiplied it. 1 gallon water is now 5 or 25, thats easy. but then I realized my first mistake. wait, I don't need 10 packs yeast for a 10 gallon batch. I only need 2-3. And that got me to thinking... if I wanted to make a 50 gallon batch would I want to throw in 50 sticks of cinnamon? or less? ...or more?? So my lovely new friends and experts. Could you give me a hand at figuring out how much I need of things if I was to make a 5,10,25, or 50 gallon batch? I dont think I will ever make anything over 50 gal at a time.



Spice Mead (1 gallon)
Honey 6 1/2 lbs
Water 1 gallon
Raisins 1/8 cup
Clove (whole) 1
Cinnamon (Stick) 1
Nutmeg 1/8 tsp
Allspice 1/8 tsp
Yeast (5g) 2 (1 to start, 1 a week later cuz I panicked thinking it died and failed)
(Lalvin K1V116)
Yeast Energizer 1/8 cup total (1 tsp to start, 1/2 tsp every other day x 6, 2 tsp last time)

Edit: OH, and the starting Starting Gravity was 1.150 with a final Gravity of 1.040
Also I kind of forgot about it so Primary was 2 months, secondary was about a month and a half before going in a gallon carboy (bottling)

 

[MightyMosin]

This is out of my element as I haven't done anything at that 50 gallon kind of size but I can throw a few suggestions at you and others can add to and correct me where needed.

Starting with the yeast. While you could add 10 packets of yeast for your 50 gallon batch, there isn't a necessarily a need for that. You can make a yeast starter to grow a larger colony from a smaller size. I haven't done this but I know you can do this. Search and you will find more info about this out there.

This is how you make a perfect yeast starter [Updated 2024]

A no-nonsense guide to making a yeast starter including pictures, a simple recipe, and detailed instructions. The only resource you will ever need.

bisonbrew.com

Your ground spices are likely going to be multiplied out to your batch size as they generally won't add more flavor by sitting there loner. Some items like cinnamon can be tricky and really depend upon how long you leave them in your mead.

You likely wouldn't need 50 sticks for your 50 gallon batch. Less might serve well but need to sit longer in the mead. Some of that will depend on how long you left your cinnamon in your single gallon batch and if that extracted all the spice out of the stick. I believe the key would be to sample periodically to make sure you don't overshoot the flavor you are looking for.

 

[Dan O]

So I am new to mead making and have been experimenting with different batches. I tried just a plain that turned out way to dry for my liking (champagne yeast indeed!), a ginger orange that was more ginger then orange (whoops, 5 oz ginger to a gal might just be a little to much), a herb one that we just wont mention, and then the reason I am here, a spice mead. I will list the recipe at then end, and before anyone says it... yes i know, I dont need that much honey. I had a new scale that I misread and then failed to math right, and ya... it was just a bad day all in all HAHA. Also, I am sure I dont need the raisins (from what I have read it really doesn't do much?) but someone told me to add them so I did... And Finally, yes I know 1 pack of yeast is good for 5 gallons. but it cant hurt to use that much yeast right? I mean it just helps it get there faster right? In my defense tho, for being a noob, it did turn out amazing.

So my questions are, how do you scale up for larger batches? How do you know? Where do you(/can I) find this information? All my friends and family want me to make them some so I was thinking about making a larger batch vs how I have been doing it. I have been making it, but I have been making it 1 gallon at a time. (I have 4 x 1 gallon batches going right now.)

I know from what I have read and from the ginger incident that you can have too much of something in a batch and that is what I want to avoid. So how do I figure this out? I wrote down a simple table of 1,5,10,25, and 50 across the top and then the ingredients down the left side and just multiplied it. 1 gallon water is now 5 or 25, thats easy. but then I realized my first mistake. wait, I don't need 10 packs yeast for a 10 gallon batch. I only need 2-3. And that got me to thinking... if I wanted to make a 50 gallon batch would I want to throw in 50 sticks of cinnamon? or less? ...or more?? So my lovely new friends and experts. Could you give me a hand at figuring out how much I need of things if I was to make a 5,10,25, or 50 gallon batch? I dont think I will ever make anything over 50 gal at a time.



Spice Mead (1 gallon)
Honey 6 1/2 lbs
Water 1 gallon
Raisins 1/8 cup
Clove (whole) 1
Cinnamon (Stick) 1
Nutmeg 1/8 tsp
Allspice 1/8 tsp
Yeast (5g) 2 (1 to start, 1 a week later cuz I panicked thinking it died and failed)
(Lalvin K1V116)
Yeast Energizer 1/8 cup total (1 tsp to start, 1/2 tsp every other day x 6, 2 tsp last time)

Edit: OH, and the starting Starting Gravity was 1.150 with a final Gravity of 1.040
Also I kind of forgot about it so Primary was 2 months, secondary was about a month and a half before going in a gallon carboy (bottling)

Welcome to the forums.
WOW! 6 1/2lbs of honey for one gallon, I'm shocked it even started fermenting for you. As to your question of where to find information, these two sources should set you in the right direction.

Mead making Journey

Helpful consolidation of information on mead making

gotmead.com

The Newbee Guide to Making Mead – Got Mead? The Largest Mead...

The NewBee Guide was written in 2006 by Angus, then a very active member of the GotMead forums, and a new, but avid, meadmaker. Angus developed several recipes that turned out pretty awesome, and the NewBee Guide was his very kind gift to GotMead to help... #contained #contaminated #descriptions

gotmead.com

Admittedly, those two links have dozens of links in them & many hours of podcasts to listen to, but, you will come away from it with a new understanding of the hobby.
I hope this helps you.
Happy meading

 

[Servius82]

You can make a yeast starter to grow a larger colony from a smaller size. I haven't done this but I know you can do this. Search and you will find more info about this out there.

This is how you make a perfect yeast starter [Updated 2024]

A no-nonsense guide to making a yeast starter including pictures, a simple recipe, and detailed instructions. The only resource you will ever need.

bisonbrew.com

I have a mason jar I put some water, honey, and yeast in that I make at the beginning when I first start. I always though that that was my "yeast starter".
So, this link should be helpful, thank you for the information.

Some of that will depend on how long you left your cinnamon in your single gallon batch and if that extracted all the spice out of the stick.

I basically just throw everything in the primary and leave it until secondary. So 1 1/2 to 2 months.

 

[Servius82]

WOW! 6 1/2lbs of honey for one gallon, I'm shocked it even started fermenting for you.

It does take a few days before I really notice fermentation and the airlock starts working. Also I was adding 1/2 tsp of yeast energizer every other day for the first week. So I am guessing they are struggling. Maybe because I use the whole 5g package of yeast to start and then all the yeast helper over the first week and then a second full pack of yeast after a week?

Mead making Journey

Helpful consolidation of information on mead making

gotmead.com

The Newbee Guide to Making Mead – Got Mead? The Largest Mead...

The NewBee Guide was written in 2006 by Angus, then a very active member of the GotMead forums, and a new, but avid, meadmaker. Angus developed several recipes that turned out pretty awesome, and the NewBee Guide was his very kind gift to GotMead to help... #contained #contaminated #descriptions

gotmead.com

Admittedly, those two links have dozens of links in them & many hours of podcasts to listen to, but, you will come away from it with a new understanding of the hobby.

Hopefully this will be super helpful. Thank you. I kind of wish I had come across this site sooner in my journey, I might have saved some time and trouble.

 

[4give]

Welcome! Dan O gave you some good links. Some of my thoughts are the following:

1) You can experiment along the way with different ingredients, but learn how to make a really good Trad.
2) In order to do #1, you might just want to pause and study for a bit. I'm not going to assume how much you currently know, but understand all the basic equipment you'll need to do this decently. How does PH, SG, SO2, etc. impact what's going on? When do you know something is wrong, and what do you do about it?
3) Start small with adjuncts. It's always easier to add more because once the ingredient/adjunct has integrated into the must, you can't take it out.
4) What do ingredients taste like when used in primary vs secondary, etc. (mainly for fruits), and then blended is something to learn.
5) The science and protocol is one thing, but part of the art form is tweaking your batches. The dry batch may have been awesome with a little back-sweetening - maybe even with a different honey - for example.
5) Most importantly, IMO, is make what you think tastes good. It's great to share, but what are you doing this for if you don't like it?

Every ingredient doesn't have a direct relationship to batch size. They can also be expensive. Cinnamon sticks aren't cheap, and as MightyMosin pointed to, you might be able to get what you need from a bunch of them that you then have to rack off of, or quite a bit fewer sticks left in longer might give you what you need and possibly integrate better. Every batch is a different bio-mass. Your acid or back-sweetening tweaks may be different form one to the next for example. If you haven't already, you may want to experiment with oak. Go with cubes or larger, not chips. Different yeasts can give you different effects as well. I often get a slight spice/cinnamon nuance from D254 yeast with one of my recipes. Which brings up another point of trying to pair your yeast to what you're doing.

You may be surprised at how many bottles you'll get from 5 gallons. Others here will know better than I as I only have room for a few 3-7 gallon batches (just got done bottling 29 gallons of various batch sizes). If I ever make room for a larger fermentation vessel, I'll be investing in temp control as well. The larger the batch, the more heat the fermentation produces. This can put the temps above the range of the yeast your using, but temps can impact fermentation speed, flavor, and aroma.

I'd recommend starting with a 3 or 5 gallon batch, and then think about the investment to scale larger if that's what you want to do.

I hope this helps you think through things some.