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Selling mead/wine in Ontario

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Chevette Girl

Chevette Girl

All around BAD EXAMPLE
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Apr 27, 2010
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Ottawa, ON
So my husband and I just had "The Talk" tonight... No, not that I have a brewing problem (he knows that already and has come to accept it) and should quit brewing more than I can drink or give away, but that I should try to make this hobby at least support itself, and what would it take to be allowed to legally sell what I make? And he's got a point, it costs nothing to find out.

I'm starting this thread here as a place to store information I find out about starting a meadery or winery in Ontario to figure out what we need before we even look at starting the paperwork. I'll be re-reading the other startup threads (thanks again, guys) before I start my research so I'll at least have a starting point.

And anyone with stronger google-fu than me is welcome to post anything useful, I'll be doing this in dribs and drabs between chopping apples and figuring out what to rack to make room for what will come out of the apples when I press them!
 
IIRC, Ontario requires you to have an apiary to open your meadery. You could ping Munro Mead (in London I think) to see how they got started.
 
Huh, you have to have a rather LARGE apiary too... I guess I could talk to the apiary I use, but I really doubt they'd be interested.
 
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<facepalm> well, why on earth would they want to deal with a hundred very small businesses when they could instead deal with a dozen medium sized ones instead?

I just love how they want me to buy a $35 document just to find out there's no frigging chance I can do this because I don't own farmland.
 
So far these are the links I've looked at...

This one seems to be a guide to the $35 guide, it's the one that indicates you have to grow all your own fruit, but I saw two different fruit wineries indicate on their websites that they don't use exclusively their own fruit.

This one from the AGCO has some vague unhelpful information.

This one is a bunch of regulatory changes, I tried but haven't gotten through it yet.

This one is probably the least helpful government page I've ever seen but it's where to get the $35 document that tells me I'm screwed.

This one has some good suggestions but is sorely lacking in the regulations I would like to see, although the appendices look promising.
 
Sigh. Doesn't sound like they make it easy ANYWHERE anymore.

So basically, to get to do this you just have to prove you don't have to do it. I can understand making sure that you're making a safe product, but a lot of it is just so mindless. Of course, they have their reasons. Paperwork, paperwork and more paperwork. It reminds me of the time I tried going into business making kitchen food preparation surfaces. It didn't work out. It turned out to be counter-productive. <ducking and dodging large hurled objects>

Joe
 
Yeah, they wonder why so many people do things illegally, when they make it so bloody difficult for anyone who's not a large-time beekeeper or has an orchard/vinyeard to do it legally... <sigh>

<hurls the obligatory cutting board>

Yeah, so much of this (for Ontario) seems to be tied up in trade and ensuring that you're not buying your supplies from someone else...
 
Chevette Girl said:
Yeah, they wonder why so many people do things illegally, when they make it so bloody difficult for anyone who's not a large-time beekeeper or has an orchard/vinyeard to do it legally... <sigh>

<hurls the obligatory cutting board>

Yeah, so much of this (for Ontario) seems to be tied up in trade and ensuring that you're not buying your supplies from someone else...
Click to expand...

Did you get to the part where you have to provide worker visas for the bees? And the RCMP has to be notified that there's a queen involved so they can take the necessary anti-terrorist precautions? <g>

Joe
 
joemirando said:
It reminds me of the time I tried going into business making kitchen food preparation surfaces. It didn't work out. It turned out to be counter-productive. <ducking and dodging large hurled objects>

Joe
Click to expand...

Ouch!
Your pun is like a "slab" in the face. :)

CG, you could find a nice farm/orchard that has good fruit going to waste and develop a partnership. "Granite", it won't be easy, but the relationship could be "marbleous"



Sent from my THINGAMAJIG with WHATCHAMACALLIT
 
Medsen Fey said:
Ouch!
Your pun is like a "slab" in the face. :)

CG, you could find a nice farm/orchard that has good fruit going to waste and develop a partnership. "Granite", it won't be easy, but the relationship could be "marbleous"
Click to expand...

Ouch. Good ones!

I get it from my family. My aunt used to work as a seamstress at a convent, but she had to give it up..

<Yeah, you see it coming, but you can't stop it....>

BECAUSE IT WAS HABIT-FORMING

<ducking again>


Joe
 
Chevette Girl said:
Huh, you have to have a rather LARGE apiary too... I guess I could talk to the apiary I use, but I really doubt they'd be interested.
Click to expand...

My father used to tell me this joke about a guy that gets a flat tire out in the boondocks. He opens his trunk and remembers he forgot his jack. He sees a farmhouse a long walk away in the distance and figures he might as well walk over and ask to borrow a jack.

On the way there he starts talking to himself..."Hope he's got a jack...what if he doesn't? What if he has one, but won't lend it to me... " It takes him about 30 minutes to walk over to the farmhouse..he's been mulling over all the different scenarios in his head for that entire half hour.

The farmer hears a knock on his door, walks over and opens it to find our guy...a sweaty mess with an angry look on his red face... that just points at him and says, "You know what? Stick the jack up your ass!", and then storms off.

The moral of the story is...don't assume...ask! You never know!
 
If I can ever directly find the regulations without having to pay for them, I'm pretty sure something there thinks that the mead facility has to be onsite where the honey is processed... it would be a big undertaking to do that, their honey store is just attached to the owner's house...
 
Sounds harder in Canada than it is in the US. Here I believe you need a location that is zoned for commercial. If you have that and the requisite state/fed permits you can buy honey and fruit from anywhere, with no requirement to keep bees or grow fruit yourself. On the other hand, if you want to set up a meadery in an area zoned agricultural, states may require you to grow and process grapes to qualify for the winery exemption, or they might bend the rules if you produce the honey on site...
 
I guess my next option might be to look into how they license those "brew on premises" places. Pretty much exclusively wine kits, AND no need to be purchasing brand new bottles each time... definitely just need commercial space for that.
 
(thread necro) Interestingly, Tallgrass Mead don't seem to be using their own honey, based on the website: "We use 100% Ontario honey sourced from local beekeepers, and source many of our fruit ingredients from our heritage farm property. "

Which makes me wonder how they're doing it, or if regs have changed recently.
 
As far as I could see, there was no requirement for a meadery to use their own honey. And if they registered first as a winery where they have proven that they can grow their own fruit (as their webpage seems to imply), maybe that's how they got around it. That was how I was planning to start... and a lot of places that make beer also make meads. I'd love to find the loopholes but I think I may need a business lawyer to untangle the BS for me.
 
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