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Soapy/bitter taste

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M

MFSHEPARD

NewBee
Registered Member
Apr 29, 2017
29
3
3
New to mead making, have made four 1 gallon batches since June; Cherry, peach, lemon/basil and JOAM. JOAM is still fermenting (less than 2 months old) and I haven't touched since mixed/pitched. However the other three all developed a slightly bitter and soapy taste when fermentation is complete. When mixed/pitched they taste fine. the lemon and cherry were added during the primary, Peach was added during secondary. 71B was pitched in Peach and cherry , Wyeast 1388 (BOMM) was pitched into lemon (basil added in secondary). Peach and cherry completed fermentation within 7 days, lemon/basil took about 10 days to reach SG 1.000. Fermenter/jugs/all utensils are washed, rinsed with water then with StarSan (not allowed to dry after StarSan).
is this taste normal? Will it disappear with aging? If it's not normal any ideas about cause?
 
You need to tell us everything you can from the first until the very last step. Have you had mead from anyone else? Are you using nutrients, temp control? Gravity , honey.
 
Yep, definitely need more details about your recipe and procedures. That being said, it's a pretty "young" mead to be drawing conclusions on.

It could be:

1. That you don't like dry mead.
2. You are tasting the yeast that is still suspended.
3. Tasting the honey varietal that you used.
4. Needs aging.
 
darigoni said:
Yep, definitely need more details about your recipe and procedures. That being said, it's a pretty "young" mead to be drawing conclusions on.

It could be:

1. That you don't like dry mead.
2. You are tasting the yeast that is still suspended.
3. Tasting the honey varietal that you used.
4. Needs aging.
Click to expand...

Or maybe something went wrong. Maybe some plastic leached taste. Or the honey was the supermarket variety which taste weird if you disregard the sweetness, or something was not washed or rinsed right. Bitterness is quite common. The soapiness is unusual, although some honey varietals could be a bit 'soapy'. However, given that these are melomels maybe not so much. The fact that it tasted fine at pitch doesn't help much since all that sweetness masks anything you don't like.

About the points from darigoni: most times I wouldn't describe those defects as soapy but I get it that new mazers might call it this way

P.s. as you can see both darigoni and I just brushed the surface of the problem (possibly not even mentioning the actual culprit!) And we already wrote quite a bit. Giving only a vague taste makes it very difficult for us to really help
 
I agree, need more info. according to Steve Piatz's the complete guide to mead making "soapy" could be caused by residual cleaners and disulphides. Disulphides can be caused by mercaptans (percieved by a cooked cabbage, spoiled garlic, skunk, or the aroma of natural gas. I am not saying thats what it is, but IF it was then the book suggest "avoid leaving the meas on the lees for an extended period of time. possible cause of this is lack of nitrogen for the yeast to num num on. just my .2 cents as I just read this book this past week. hope it all works out. please post full recipe and steps.
 
Squatchy said:
You need to tell us everything you can from the first until the very last step. Have you had mead from anyone else? Are you using nutrients, temp control? Gravity , honey.
Click to expand...

Squatchy, inbox is full. Email was sent.


For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
 
here goes;
Cherry mead; 1.5 lbs cherries in 1 gallon spring water (purchased), 1 campden tablet crushed, 24 hours later, added 2.5 lbs honey from farmers market (local wildflower), 1/4 tsp DAP, 1.2 tsp Fermaid K, 1/4 tsp Potassium carbonate. 71b 1122 yeast about 2.5 gr, I used GoFerm but did not record amount. OG 1.100. Two days later SG 1.050 added 1/4 tsp DAP, 13 tsp Fermaid K, 4 days from pitch SG 1.010. Five days from pitch SG 1.010 Slight bitter taste. 10 days from pitch racked to secondary.
Peach;Same initial formula but without fruit. About 3.5 cups of a darker honey from same source. OG 1.105. Two days after pitch SG 1.080. Three days after pitch SG1.068, added 1/4 tsp DAP, 1/2 tsp Fermaild K. Five days after pitch SG 1.038 added same amount DAP/FErmaid. 7 days after pitch SG 1.002, racked to secondary and added 2 lbs frozen/thawed peaches, 1/2 stick cinnamon and 1/2 vanilla bean. After 8 days in secondary, racked again to get off fruit (would not leave on fruit that long again). Noted slight bitterness and soapy taste.
Lemon/basil: 1 gallon Bottled spring water, 5 cups honey (1 quart from local amish store but had to add 1 cup Wal-Mart honey to achieve SG 1.100), zest from 6 lemons 1 1/2 campden tablet pitched Wyeast 1388 smak pack, after two days no activity so pitched another. Tree days from initial pitch SG 1.088, good lemon taste, next day SG1.064, remove lemon zest and added 1/4 tsp DAP, 1/2 tsp Fermaid K, 1/4 tsp potassium carbonate, Missing notes on 2/3 sugar break but think I probably added DAp/Fermaid K. At 10 days SG 1.005 racked to secondary and added Fresh basil leaves, day 16 from pitch racked again and removed Basil.
I usually try to aerate daily until SG gets below 1.030 by whisking for 2-3 minutes . Temp is basement temp about 70 degrees
I have drank commercial mead/melomels several times, most has been sweet but one I tried was more near a dry white wine with just a slight taste of honey.
 
Did you sanitize your fruit or other ingredients for the peach? Just curious if your tasting the sanitizer or something.


For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
 
MFSHEPARD said:
here goes;
Cherry mead; 1.5 lbs cherries in 1 gallon spring water (purchased), 1 campden tablet crushed, 24 hours later, added 2.5 lbs honey from farmers market (local wildflower), 1/4 tsp DAP, 1.2 tsp Fermaid K, 1/4 tsp Potassium carbonate. 71b 1122 yeast about 2.5 gr, I used GoFerm but did not record amount. OG 1.100. Two days later SG 1.050 added 1/4 tsp DAP, 13 tsp Fermaid K, 4 days from pitch SG 1.010. Five days from pitch SG 1.010 Slight bitter taste. 10 days from pitch racked to secondary.
Peach;Same initial formula but without fruit. About 3.5 cups of a darker honey from same source. OG 1.105. Two days after pitch SG 1.080. Three days after pitch SG1.068, added 1/4 tsp DAP, 1/2 tsp Fermaild K. Five days after pitch SG 1.038 added same amount DAP/FErmaid. 7 days after pitch SG 1.002, racked to secondary and added 2 lbs frozen/thawed peaches, 1/2 stick cinnamon and 1/2 vanilla bean. After 8 days in secondary, racked again to get off fruit (would not leave on fruit that long again). Noted slight bitterness and soapy taste.
Lemon/basil: 1 gallon Bottled spring water, 5 cups honey (1 quart from local amish store but had to add 1 cup Wal-Mart honey to achieve SG 1.100), zest from 6 lemons 1 1/2 campden tablet pitched Wyeast 1388 smak pack, after two days no activity so pitched another. Tree days from initial pitch SG 1.088, good lemon taste, next day SG1.064, remove lemon zest and added 1/4 tsp DAP, 1/2 tsp Fermaid K, 1/4 tsp potassium carbonate, Missing notes on 2/3 sugar break but think I probably added DAp/Fermaid K. At 10 days SG 1.005 racked to secondary and added Fresh basil leaves, day 16 from pitch racked again and removed Basil.
I usually try to aerate daily until SG gets below 1.030 by whisking for 2-3 minutes . Temp is basement temp about 70 degrees
I have drank commercial mead/melomels several times, most has been sweet but one I tried was more near a dry white wine with just a slight taste of honey.
Click to expand...


So you are adding your nutrients in way too late. ANd you are now tasting DAP as the bitter taste. Go make a shot of water and add some DAP to it and taste it to compare. You need to add all your nutrients before you get to the 1/3 sugar break. Otherwise the yeast can not assimilate the DAP and it gets left behind. I don't use DAP at all. Even Fermaid K has DAP in it as well so the same holds true. I wouldn't use the bicarb either unless you really need to. It's not usually necessary. I make 150 gallons a year and sometimes more and have never had a stall from pH dropping to low. I would also hold off on the camden tablets as well. They are SOdium bicarb instead of potassium bicarb and will also leave a salty/sharp taste in your mead. That isn't necessary either if you are using frozen fruit or juice from the store. If you have fresh fruit, freeze it and add it a few days after the yeast have been at work when it gets real active and you should be ok then too. You need to follow the protocol for using Goferm correctly if you want it to work like it is designed for.

I'm pretty certain if you make these adjustments you will have much better results.

Welcome to the forum BTW :)
 
So if I start at OG 1.099 all nutrients need to be added prior to 1.066? I thought I read if OG was 1.099 to add 1/3 total nutrients at pitching, 1/3 at 1.066, 1/3 at 1.033.
Will the taste dissipate with time or do I need to pour out and start over? It's not something I would drink at this point. If its' excess nutrient can I start another batch and combine with the new? Would that use the excess nutrient and correct the problem? how would I adjust nutrients for the new batch?
 
I'm not sure if you made a new batch and used the old one as a food source would work. Never tried it. Look up TOSNA for your feeding schedule. Listen to the podcast on Gotmead live. I started a new series about 6 weeks ago or so. It's about how to make good mead using modern science
 
8 days of peaches in secondary... could be that the fruit cap was not punched down and it got contaminated. wild yeast, bacteria and mold can grow on floating fruit and this could easily be the source of 'soapiness'. Through my experience I have found that I want to prolong the fermentation stage a bit more i.e. from a week to 2 weeks, but then I'd want to reduce the time the fruit is present in secondary. Don't know if all fruits work this way. Probably not, but contact time is certainly something you want to think about even if it never gets contaminated
 
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