Sorbates & Sulphites, Racking to a Secondary, and Clarifying???

[Resbum]

I think I accidentally started a batch of fruit mead. Mostly because of the amount of honey I used and the starting SG. After finding this forum I came to the decision to handle this more like a mead than a cider going forward.

I last brewed beer 15 years ago, so I have some experience with the generalities, but no first hand experience with what I'm doing now. This all came about because a neighbors pear tree absolutely erupted this year and I ended up with eleven 5-gal buckets of pears.

I could use some advice about stopping fermentation, transferring to the secondary, and clarification.

I have a 5 gallon batch going in a carboy and I'm ready to stop it at the current alcohol content.

Some back info.
3.75 gallons of pear juice picked off my neighbors tree and run through a cider press and strained through cheese cloth.
5 quarts raw wildflower honey
red star premier blanc yeast

The pear juice had a SG of 1.068 at 70*

After the honey was added SG jumped to 1.160 at 72*. When I warmed the honey to thin it down it never went over 95*

I added LD Carlson Campden (KMS) tablets, waited 24 hours, then added the yeast and energizer.

The fermentation temperature has stayed between 63-66* during the whole time with slow changes between high and low temps

SG started at 1.160 @72*

After 11 days SG had dropped to 1.090 at 65*

After 17 days, today, SG has now dropped to 1.060 at 66*

If I have figured things correctly the differences between 1.160 and 1.060 should have the alcohol content around 13% (tastes like it) and it tastes really good right here and I don't want it to get any stronger. The Red Star Premeir Blanc yeast can live up to 18% alcohol.

I have LD Carlson Campden (KMS) tablets and LD Carlson Pottassium Sorbate powder (1/2tsp gal)

I used the forum search function and couldn't find a thread I read earlier where someone said you should use both when killing off the yeast because each one targeted a different activity to wipe out.

I'm not going to back sweeten. It's ultimately getting bottled as is.

Could someone give me advice on:

1 Which or both should I use and the amount(s) for a 5-gal batch?
2 After I have added it how long should I wait before racking to the secondary? The person I bought the supplies from said 48 hours, but I think their experience is mostly to do with beer, so that may not be good advice.use

Also, clarifying it. When I explained what I was doing the person also recommended I use Chitosan as the clarifying agent. It's a clear liquid in a clear rectangle rectangle pouch. Looks to be maybe a couple ounces, and all the pouch says is 003147, CHITOSAN, Package # 6, Allergens: contains Crustaceans and Sulphites. The package has no directions and the person I bought it from honestly said they weren't sure how much of it to use, but thought it was meant for 5 gallons. They also said I could add it when I kill the yeast or when I'm racking it to the secondary.

1 Should I use the CHITOSAN to clarify?
2 If so, how much should I use?
3 And, when should I add it?

Thnaks. Resbum

 

[Maylar]

I could use some advice about stopping fermentation, transferring to the secondary, and clarification.

I have a 5 gallon batch going in a carboy and I'm ready to stop it at the current alcohol content.

You can't. You can kill yeast by possibly heating it, but that will change your mead.

 

[Squatchy]

Maylar is correct. There are some who say you can stop a moving fermentation. But I have tried many times. Only to test this. As it goes against everything I have read in scientific writings. And it has never ever worked. And I have many friends all of which also have had the same experience. I think the best you can hope for is to wait until you can cold crash it for several days this winter in a row close to freezing. Add a second dose of sulfites prior to crashing. If you have controlled temps then of course you can do that anytime in your chamber.

After a prolonged period of time in the extreme cold, you can then rack it off of the lees. This then should leave you with small biomass. You can watch it for a while in room temps to see if you have any change in gravity. I wouldn't expect to "see" proof of fermentation. But you will probably still see the gravity drop. However, it might be very slow. It's too bad you didn't get close to your ABV tolerance. You might then be able to think it's finished. You now can never know for sure. If you think you might want to bottle it. I would bottle some in plastic water bottles first. Yeast can be very funny. It can sit dormant forever. And then for reasons unbeknownst to us they just decide it's time to get busy again. Many times this can happen when introduced into a new environment. At least you can monitor the pressure in the plastic bottles. I would also try changing things with the plastic bottle with the intention of seeing if you can make them go off. I guess if at some point they don't you might then be able to hope you can bottle them in glass. But you just might even still end up with gushers or bombs at worse case scenarios.

It's very hard on yeast to start them in gravity that high. Special considerations are in order (at least when I do that) which isn't often. I usually pic and abv I want my stuff to drink at. And then run it dry. Stabilize. And then backsweeten to taste. This way is controllable. the other way is guesswork. However. After you do it enough. And with the same procedure and learn different yeast strains. And how they perform. You can guess pretty well then. The polish guys do a great job and have it down pat. I plan to head in that direction this winter to learn more. It takes a long time to age. But that's what barrels are for.

If you want to try a high gravity start sometime and want to give your yeast the very best chance to do their best let me know and I can help you out.

 

[Resbum]

Thanks for your replies. I have bumbled my way to this point and still have something that tastes good. That's down to mostly luck. Now I'm just trying to keep from ruining it moving forward.

Ultimately, I ended up setting it out behind my garage to cold crash, at 1.052. We've been having highs in the mid-40's now for several days. Tomorrow morning is supposed to bottom out around 34*. After that our highs start getting back up to 50-ish for several days. By tomorrow AM it will have been outside for 64 hours. Currently there's a 1/2" layer of white-ish fines on the very bottom and another 1/2" layer on top of that I believe is a lot of solids from the raw pears.

After reading your replies it doesn't sound like I've done anything irreversible or really harmful by cold crashing it like I have. I'm going to rack it into the secondary carboy tomorrow morning. If for no other reason than to get it off the current fines.

Fortunately I haven't added any sorbates or campden to it, yet. Sounds like my best course of action is to let it go ahead and ferment as far as it's going to ferment.

Would it be a good time to add some distilled water when I rack it tomorrow? A quart of water, or two, would get my liquid level back up into the neck of the carboy. Both the remaining sugar and final alcohol content are going to probably need to be toned down a little.

Thanks again for the replies. Resbum

 

[Squatchy]

Yes, you can add water to it. This would dilute the ABV and could cause the yeast to start back up some, possibly. I would add some bottled water that tastes good. I really like Fiji water. But that's just me. Distilled water has no flavor. I would add good-tasting water.

 

[MightyMosin]

I know that additional equipment would be needed, but I assume you can pump it through a fine enough filter to capture the yeast. Is this an incorrect assumption?

 

[Squatchy]

I know that additional equipment would be needed, but I assume you can pump it through a fine enough filter to capture the yeast. Is this an incorret

Not sure how someone answered on my account. But. You can only do that if you have a system that starts around 30K I believe. Fining it clearly will not do it. I don't think you can really fine it to "that clear" when fermentation is still active. I can't. But then again my " clear" is different than other people's definition of clear. I've seen people talk about "clear" and you couldn't even see your hand on the other side of the bottle. You can read the fine print on the other side of my stuff. But that comes after I fine with "+" and "-" charged fining adjuncts, cold stabilize it and polish it through a filter

 

[EricHartman]

I know that additional equipment would be needed, but I assume you can pump it through a fine enough filter to capture the yeast. Is this an incorrect assumption?

Are you asking if you could filter at a specific gravity to halt the fermentation? Certainly is possible but I believe the equipment is very cost prohibitive to us home mead makers.

 

[pdh]

I've wanted to stop fermentation at a certain point too, but never succeeded. Tried adding sorbate / sulfites but ended up with fizzy / carbonated mead after a year or two of aging -- which was pleasant enough in its own way but not what I was trying for.

So the goal is to kill the yeast, without resorting to something like pasteurization which would affect the flavor. What about UV? There are manufacturers who make UV "pens" that are intended to be immersed in suspect drinking water; the UV apparently kills the nasties and makes the water safe to drink. I've never tried it, but I wonder if a UV water purifier could be used to kill the yeast and stop fermentation in its tracks?

 

[EricHartman]

Intense uv is certainly a method of sterilization. I think the difficulty would be knowing you got them all. I can envision an inline uv light that the mead passed through while racking. Likely would have to be rather intense though, or a prolonged exposure. Clarity of the must would be very important. Quick search on Google showed there such devices for well water... starting price is 9k lol

 

[pdh]

Intense uv is certainly a method of sterilization. I think the difficulty would be knowing you got them all. I can envision an inline uv light that the mead passed through while racking. Likely would have to be rather intense though, or a prolonged exposure. Clarity of the must would be very important. Quick search on Google showed there such devices for well water... starting price is 9k lol

Amazon has a bunch of different UV sterilization pens costing around $100 -- those are the kinds of things I was thinking of. You immerse the pen in the liquid -- inline sounds more convenient but wow the price.
Looking at details about a unit made by Katadyn, they recommend exposure time of 90 seconds for 1 liter. And they do say that cloudiness hinders effectiveness, which might be the deal-breaker if you were trying to kill all the yeast cells in a partially-fermented batch of mead. At that stage, the must is almost guaranteed to be somewhat cloudy...