Southpaw?

[AToE]

Some nutritional deficiencies can turn otherwise brunette hair "red" (you can sometimes see this when someone goes "vegan" and ceases to take any animal protien) and some chemo can change the texture and color of the hair that returns post chemo...

I've heard of medical problems turning hair red, but never from going vegan!

(very few vegans are nutrient difficient - other than iron and calcium, but even then they're usually pretty on top of just eating more green leafy veggies to get that iron and calcium. Vegitarians on the other hand often eat mostly junk food and are often as nutrient deprived as most meat eating north americans.)

Not taking in animal protien doesn't matter, all those same amino acids are available in plants, you just have to mix and match plants to get them all. That said, calcium and iron, as previously mentioned, which in most people's diets come from red meat and milk products, those can be lacking in a vegan diet.

 

[AToE]

How did I manage to fall in with so many leftists? :icon_scratch:

Edit - Red leftists at that!

I call myself centerist... but "center" in Canada is probably a little to the left when compared to US politics!

 

[TheAlchemist]

...calcium and iron, as previously mentioned, which in most people's diets come from red meat and milk products, those can be lacking in a vegan diet.

Not to mention Vitamin B12

 

[TheAlchemist]

I call myself centerist... but "center" in Canada is probably a little to the left when compared to US politics!

If I were a Canadian, I'd probably be a "centrist" too.

 

[AToE]

Not to mention Vitamin B12

That's right, I forgot B12, which usually has to be taken as a supplement (my ex of 5 years is vegan, so I've become fairly well aquainted with the lifestyle!).

But, like I said to my grandma when she asked about my girlfriend being malnourished - vegans can potentially be short on a few key things, but everyone else tends to be short on the rest!

 

[Chevette Girl]

I've heard of medical problems turning hair red, but never from going vegan!

Not taking in animal protien doesn't matter, all those same amino acids are available in plants, you just have to mix and match plants to get them all. That said, calcium and iron, as previously mentioned, which in most people's diets come from red meat and milk products, those can be lacking in a vegan diet.

A friend of mine who's been on prednisone since she was young of course ended up osteoporotic, and when she was on Fosamax (supposed to help bones reabsorb calcium) all was normal for the first few months but then her hair started growing in clear (no pigment) when the docs gave her a high calcium dose. The docs switched her off that a few months later so then she had this band of non-pigment growing out through her hair...

...and furthermore, YAY, Lefties for being in our right minds...

 

[PitBull]

Speaking of adding a poll, how many of y'all are redheads? Red beards?

Don't forget the Rednecks. [That seems to run in families too!]

 

[mccann51]

At least we're not gorillas!

Speak for yourself. Haha!

 

[AToE]

??? I somehow have managed to not understand that "at least we're not gorillas" joke entirely! Seriously, I'm lost. But jokes become not funny if they're explained... so I'm screwed either way it seems.

 

[Tiwas]

It does seem like there're a disproportionate number of southpaws here, though. What's the percentage in the population?

5-8 in the public in general (depending on the source), around 10+ in adults (not counting kids or elderly - I have no idea why there's such a large difference, but it seems we tend to die early...). If looking at people with IQs over 140 the number is closer to 30%. Does that mean we're smart? Any members of high IQ socoeties in here?

 

[AToE]

Supposedly lefties tend to be better than normal musicians. I have no idea if there's even the slightest real evidence to back that up though! I can think of lots of great lefty musicians/writers, but of course I can also think of lots of right handed ones...

 

[Chevette Girl]

5-8 in the public in general (depending on the source), around 10+ in adults (not counting kids or elderly - I have no idea why there's such a large difference, but it seems we tend to die early...). If looking at people with IQs over 140 the number is closer to 30%. Does that mean we're smart? Any members of high IQ socoeties in here?

I have heard statistics that we are more likely to succumb to accidental death than rihgt-handers (curse you, right-hand world!!)... but I think the reason the stats won't count the elderly is because we have no idea how many were beaten or coerced into switching hands in their early schooling because of the "sinister" stigma, and wouldn't count young children because they may not have developed a sidedness yet.

And though not a member of any society, I was in a program for gifted kids for most of my scholastic career prior to university. With a similar IQ to my brother, who was in special ed classes and I don't know if he finished high school. Learning disability. So I dunno if that counts for anything. All I got from the gifted program was a few good experiences to combat the feeling that I was bottom of the barrel of the smart kids. <shrug> I don't recall there being a disproportionate number of lefties in my year group, there were about 20 of us in the program and it was something I watched for...

 

[Tiwas]

Supposedly lefties tend to be better than normal musicians. I have no idea if there's even the slightest real evidence to back that up though! I can think of lots of great lefty musicians/writers, but of course I can also think of lots of right handed ones...

If we say there are 10% left handed people in the world, then there's 600 million of us and 5.4 billion right handed (using 6 billion).

So...let's say we take 100 great musicians. If there are more than 10 left handed ones in that group, then left handed people are better at that specific task.

I don't think a left handed drummer would be better than a right handed one, but I do see several positives if playing guitar. It would be easier for a leftie to change notes with his right hand, but tweaking the strings with the right hand would be harder. Unless ambidextrous, which is quite normal in lefties.

I think the big difference comes when looking at abstract thinking in general (yes, music, especially creating it, is abstract) we will find a lot more lefties than righties (compared to the total number in each group).

 

[Tiwas]

I have heard statistics that we are more likely to succumb to accidental death than rihgt-handers (curse you, right-hand world!!)... but I think the reason the stats won't count the elderly is because we have no idea how many were beaten or coerced into switching hands in their early schooling because of the "sinister" stigma, and wouldn't count young children because they may not have developed a sidedness yet.

I was told by my teacher I had to switch hand because being left handed was a sign of being retarded. This was in the early 80s...

And though not a member of any society, I was in a program for gifted kids for most of my scholastic career prior to university. With a similar IQ to my brother, who was in special ed classes and I don't know if he finished high school. Learning disability. So I dunno if that counts for anything. All I got from the gifted program was a few good experiences to combat the feeling that I was bottom of the barrel of the smart kids. <shrug> I don't recall there being a disproportionate number of lefties in my year group, there were about 20 of us in the program and it was something I watched for...

We've had this discussion on the Norwegian Mensa forum, and it seems a lot of higher IQ people have problems with regular school. One of the reasons is that they don't let you run with ideas, but instead wants you to conform. For me, the disappointment of not being able to develop my skills was a big factor in me being an under achiever. I didn't even graduate from high school, but when I did a compressed course and went through high school++ in a year, I excelled. Go figure.

 

[Tiwas]

That's right, I forgot B12, which usually has to be taken as a supplement (my ex of 5 years is vegan, so I've become fairly well aquainted with the lifestyle!).

But, like I said to my grandma when she asked about my girlfriend being malnourished - vegans can potentially be short on a few key things, but everyone else tends to be short on the rest!

B-12 = carnitine?

There are also less essential amino acids and complete proteins in veg(etari)an food sources, less creatine and a LOT more estrogen stimulating food. You also have to be pretty good at mixing and matching to get the ratios right.

I shouldn't speak too loud, though, as I'm almost 100% meat eater. Vegetables are fillers if there's no more meat. ;D

 

[Chevette Girl]

I was told by my teacher I had to switch hand because being left handed was a sign of being retarded. This was in the early 80s...

You're around my age, I never got that kind of crap, just the "why is your handwriting so abysmal?" crap after they inadvertently reinforced that speed was the key by rewarding us for getting our work done quickly and not making me do it over if the quality wasn't up to par... My dad was a lefty and permitted to be such in the 50's, and I know people younger than that who were forced to switch, so I guess it really depended on your teachers and school policy. And my writing looks just like his. Go figure.

We've had this discussion on the Norwegian Mensa forum, and it seems a lot of higher IQ people have problems with regular school. One of the reasons is that they don't let you run with ideas, but instead wants you to conform. For me, the disappointment of not being able to develop my skills was a big factor in me being an under achiever. I didn't even graduate from high school, but when I did a compressed course and went through high school++ in a year, I excelled. Go figure.

Whereas when I was bored, I'd just read novels through class, back when I could listen AND read at the same time... I guess at least the "enriched" (I think they're calling them today) program did give us an outlet to run with ideas, somewhere we didn't have to conform. What I got out of being above average was crappy study habits because I mostly didn't have to work too hard. Kinda hit home when I got to university and it wasn't all a breeze. Took 5 years to finish a 4-year degree.

 

[Tiwas]

Whereas when I was bored, I'd just read novels through class, back when I could listen AND read at the same time...

I remember that time. I miss it. I used to read for exams while watching a movie, and, if I could, talk to friends on the phone. I cannot do that any more, and I think, like you mention, it's about the crappy habits I developed.

Took 5 years to finish a 4-year degree.

hehe...just like me

 

[AToE]

B-12 = carnitine?

There are also less essential amino acids and complete proteins in veg(etari)an food sources, less creatine and a LOT more estrogen stimulating food. You also have to be pretty good at mixing and matching to get the ratios right.

I shouldn't speak too loud, though, as I'm almost 100% meat eater. Vegetables are fillers if there's no more meat. ;D

B12 is apparently also called cobalamin.

It's actually a lot harder to get all the ratios wrong than it is to get them right - just eat boatloads of everything you can get your hands on that isn't processed, you'll live to be 100. ;D

The less amino acids (complete protien/same thing) in plants don't matter as long as you eat ones with complimentary amino acids. The general rule is combining grains and beans (tofu and rice noodles, beans and rice, so forth and so on) then you get what you need. Getting the proper amount of protein in a day is extremely easy on a vegan diet (let alone vegitarian, then it's just plain almost impossible not to get your protien) - most meat eaters (even those like myself who don't eat it that often) take in far more protien than they actually have any use for, it's just wasted. Iron, B12 and calcium are the major worries, and two of those are taken care of with leafy greens (spinach contains far more iron per weight than beef does for example).

The estrogen and creatine things I've frankly not run across before, I've never heard of those. I can't see them being a big deal just due to past experience, but I'm no expert, I'll have to dig into those.

The general perception that being vegan (or even more erroneous, vegitarian) is somehow less healthy than being omnivorous doesn't really stack up - not only because of what nutrition is in plants vs meat - the main thing is really simple: vegans know they might end up deficient in a couple areas, and as such make sure to eat a wide variety of food, and also generally avoid more processed food. Compare that with most meat eaters (myself included until 5 years ago) who basically have no idea what good nutrition is and take in most of their calories in very unhealthy forms (not the meat - it's the sugar water and white bread that'll kill you). Compare what % of vegans read the ingredients and nutrient info on every single package they buy to how many meat eaters do this (since we have no stats on that feel free to just guess!) and you'll see what I mean.

Just in case anyone is wondering too, I don't really care, and I'm not a pusher of veganism or anything - I just love a good argument, great exercise for the brain, even when I lose!

Plus I've just fallen in love with everything about being vegan other than giving up my occasional meat and dairy! They seem to be more aware of their surroundings than most people are, and have really good grasps on cause & effect morality (a term I made up just now).

Other than the crazy ones that yell at people. Those ones I don't look up to so much!

 

[wildoates]

I'm a righty and while not much of a musician, I am fairly brainy, IQ moderately far up there, but lazy as heck and was an extremely poor student until...

I grew up a bit, and after piddling around with junior college for a few years, took intersession course that, among many other aptitudes, tested my IQ. I became profoundly embarrassed to have scored so high on that and every other test yet had accomplished so little up to that point. I got my act together and managed to graduate from university at age 34. I think all that makes me a better teacher, dunno.

But as a teacher, please don't blame us for not being able to provide the education for kids who are out of the ordinary on the high end of the scale--we try, but are constrained by so many things beyond our control--from the number of kids in our classes (commonly 40 for us in HS) to the resources we have for the kids who the system figures are smart enough to figure it out on their own, to the standardized tests we have to administer and have all students score well on. There's usually little room in that mess for the young GCs and Tiwases at school, unfortunately--and since my kds are all extremely bright too, I know what it's like on all sides. Our school just got IB, though, which I hope will help more kds like you!

Since I get the IB 9th graders, I think for fun I'll start surveying them on handedness to see if there's any correlation with braininess.

 

[Tiwas]

The less amino acids (complete protien/same thing)

Not necessarily. A complete protein is protein with all the essential aminos. Doesn't have to be a lot of them or even protein dense.

The general rule is combining grains and beans (tofu

Tofu is one of the worst. So is green tea. http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm

Getting the proper amount of protein in a day is extremely easy on a vegan diet

I think that depends on two things - your body type (you don't see people with my body type eating vegan or vegetarian. Before the day was over, we'd accidentally eaten a kid) and also what kind of research you're supporting. I like the newer research, and I try to eat at least 2g/kg lean body mass. For me, that's almost 200g protein/day, which is like 2lbs of lean meat every day. That's a h¤ll of a lot of fish/eggs. Not to mention beans (yuck!)

The estrogen and creatine things I've frankly not run across before, I've never heard of those. I can't see them being a big deal just due to past experience, but I'm no expert, I'll have to dig into those.

I'm the kind of person who usually think like "you can eat whatever you feel like, just don't criticize my steak!", so I have to admin I haven't done too much research into creatine for vegans and vegetarians. Creatine, though, is stored in muscle (MEAT! ) and is necessary for the production of ATP. Without ATP, you cannot lift heavy. You can run marathons, but I don't want to be a scrawny runner, so I don't concern myself with that either

omnivorous

Who wants to be an omnivore when there's so much good meat just waiting for me to suck it off the bones? [insert sensored smiley here - damned limit!]

(not the meat - it's the sugar water and white bread that'll kill you)

Completely agree with you. Insulin, while good for storing other nutrients, is NOT good when you flood the system with it. I use a periodic fast approach to eating, and I function sooo much better with fewer (but larger) insulin spikes during the day.

Compare what % of vegans read the ingredients and nutrient info on every single package they buy to how many meat eaters do this (since we have no stats on that feel free to just guess!) and you'll see what I mean.

Hmmm...if I take me and the people I hang out with, I'd say about 90%. However, for some reason I think that number would be slightly lower for the general population [insert sensored smiley here - damned limit!]

Just in case anyone is wondering too, I don't really care, and I'm not a pusher of veganism or anything - I just love a good argument, great exercise for the brain, even when I lose!

That's why they invented the word "why". I've won arguments by not making any of my own, but making them trip in their own. Simply by asking "why". Not good training for the brain, but it sure is fun [insert sensored smiley here - damned limit!]

[Vegans ... ]They seem to be more aware of their surroundings than most people are

That's because they know that carnivores like me will probably eat them if they're the only good protein source around [insert sensored smiley here - damned limit!]